Van chassis oil cooler

Okay, I figured this deserved it's own thread instead of hijacking someone else's for a truck.

Based on what I can see from this page, showing removal from a truck, it's going to be a bit different. For one ting, the frame doesn't run parallel to the cooler. Instead, there is a cross member support that runs underneath the engine, with the ends of the oil cooler sticking out:





....vs a truck with the box frame right by the cooler:

]

The truck's box frame seems to be a problem with clearance with the oil cooler, which isn't there on the van:


The (truck chassis) tutorial has you removing the power steering pump, but I'm not sure it's needed on the van. It appears to be positioned slightly differently, but I could be wrong. If anything, the (ugh) exhaust might have to be, unless it can be turned and tilted in such a way that it can clear the exhaust pipe. Otherwise, it might have to come out from the front, if the oil filter end can make it through the tunnel of the cross member. In which case, the radiator would probably have to come out. It is possible that the power steering pump might have to come out, hard to say. It would less hassle than the rusted old exhaust that would probably break.

Thoughts? Experience?

@genscripter has info on his website I think. If not he should at least have some insight. He seems to have done a lot with his van.

chillman88 said:

@genscripter has info on his website I think. If not he should at least have some insight. He seems to have done a lot with his van.

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Hmm.. I can't find anything 100% van specific on his site for the oil cooler. It shows them being done with an engine on a stand. The main page about rearing the cooler says this:

But lucky for van owners, they can slide this oil cooler assembly quite easily on the block with it installed in the engine bay. It’s tight, but with enough finagling, it can be fished in and out of the spot behind the motor mount.

Source: http://www.nickpisca.com/diesel/engine/6-9-and-7-3-idi-oil-cooler-repair/

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On the page about truck vs van differences, it says:

Paradoxically, because the headers are slightly different (the truck model has deeper headers, as shown in the image to the right), it is possible to uninstall and reinstall the oil cooler assembly on a van without having to pull the engine. In general, the vans are notoriously difficult to work on, but this oil cooler feature is one of the few benefits over a truck, because they have to lift the engine to get their coolers out.

Source: http://www.nickpisca.com/diesel/turbo/differences-between-the-idi-van-and-idi-truck-engines/

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Being that his pages show being on a stand, the power steering pump being in the way doesn't come in to play at all. But by the sound of it though, it might just unbolt and come right out from the rear without removing anything else, when it comes to vans.

EDIT: Oh and the first link also says...

For IDI Truck guys, I hear you have to lift the engine to get these off and on. Bummer for you. I’d feel sorry for you, but then again, this is basically the only real advantage that van guys have over every part of the IDI engine in a truck. So na nana na na na….

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I've replaced my oil cooler seals three times back in 2015 and 2016 because I had that oil-in-coolant issue. So I'm a bit of an unwilling expert at extracting them from the van engine bay.

The process is pretty easy if that RV has the same crossmember as my van. It will not just pull off the block and come out. You will have to remove the mounting bolts to the block and the cooler assembly will fall off the block depending on how old the gaskets are. Then you'll need to rotate the whole assembly until it can slide back toward the rear. It will require constant turning as you pull it out, because it won't just slide out due to the headers interfering with the crossmember. If it kinks up somewhere, then rotate it back and try again. You won't need a hammer or something. If you find the sweet spot in the rotation, it'll just come right out.

The problem isn't getting the oil cooler assembly out. It's getting back in with the gaskets in place. It's really hard to put the gaskets on the mating surfaces without scuffing them or breaking them. And you want to put the bolts in the headers to hold the gasket, or use some permatex, but if you scuff it on the cross member or block, you kind of need to start over. It's a PITA. It's 100x easier if you have a friend who can line up the front part of the oil cooler (laying under the radiator), while you line up the four bolts in the rear header. If you are doing it on your own, it's possible, but your neighbors might hear you swear a lot.


I hadn't started up my website and hadn't been filming these jobs back when i did that stuff, otherwise it would be a great tutorial. Now I just make sure the seals are good when I rebuild the block in my garage on the stand. I got a 6.9 and a 7.3 just sitting there waiting on stands for rebuilds and videos. Been too busy with the VRV project to do any rebuilding in my free time.

genscripter said:

The problem isn't getting the oil cooler assembly out. It's getting back in with the gaskets in place.

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Hm, can you not basically put the cooler back in place without the gaskets, but lay it down on the cross member, leaving the block ports exposed? Then apply the gaskets to the block with some RTV to hold them there, put a bit of RTV on the outer side of the gaskets for mating with the cooler headers, then lift the cooler into place and carefully bolt up one end loosely with one bolt, then move to the other end and do the same? Or is there not enough space to have it sitting down some so it's basically in place but not blocking the ports?

I think I tried both. One time, I put rtv to hold the paper gasket on the headers, and the other time, i tried rtv holding it on the block. Both ended up getting scuffed. When you try to weasel the assembly back into place, it's hard to rotate it around the crossmember without scuffing the mating surfaces on the block. But not impossible.

For some reason, I remember keeping the gaskets on the headers was easier. It's been a long time.

If I were you, I would put the assembly back together and then do a test run without the gaskets and RTV. Remember how your rotated it around the crossmember, and then decide if you want to mount the gaskets to the block surface, or to the headers.

genscripter said:

I think I tried both. One time, I put rtv to hold the paper gasket on the headers, and the other time, i tried rtv holding it on the block. Both ended up getting scuffed. When you try to weasel the assembly back into place, it's hard to rotate it around the crossmember without scuffing the mating surfaces on the block. But not impossible.

For some reason, I remember keeping the gaskets on the headers was easier. It's been a long time.

If I were you, I would put the assembly back together and then do a test run without the gaskets and RTV. Remember how your rotated it around the crossmember, and then decide if you want to mount the gaskets to the block surface, or to the headers.

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I have another thought: Why not use RTV only without the paper gaskets? Are they really that important? I suspect they are if you are in a hurry to put it together in a shop setting, where you want it done immediately, rather than waiting overnight for RTV to set before exposing it to fluids. Or if the engine is on a stand and it's easy to install. It might work to maneuver in the cooler, let it rest on the crossmember, apply RTV to the block (and headers if possible) and loosely put it together one end at a time with a single bolt before fully installing it. Or, does that create a high risk of severe blockage someplace due to the amount of RTV required to seal it up properly?

Orange high temp is good up to 650F:
https://www.permatex.com/products/g...ex-sensor-safe-high-temp-rtv-silicone-gasket/

This stuff is good up to 700F but it might be too extreme for this purpose:
https://www.permatex.com/products/g...aximum-temperature-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker/

At least Fel-Pro gaskets are fairly cheap, under $7/set, if they are the better way to go. I will be doing this back where my truck is, so I will have that to drive while the RV is down. I can go buy 3 sets for extras on hand before I start trying to put it back. Any left over can be returned unopened.

I don't have a vise for holding it still to get it apart, but I could probably make one out of the 2x4s and the bottle jack I got with the RV. It's the possibly OEM one in bottle form but with a long, folding crank arm, where you turn a thing on the jack to extend/retract it, so you can be very careful extending it, rather than it being a hydraulic pump arm.

Having a way to press it back together might be a problem too. But again, I could probably make a press for this task out of 2x4s and the bottle jack. It shouldn't need so much pressure that it would snap screwed together 2x4s. I need to buy some for properly repairing the bathroom ceiling structure in the RV anyway, so they wouldn't be going to waste.

Cubey said:

I don't have a vise for holding it still to get it apart, but I could probably make one out of the 2x4s and the bottle jack I got with the RV. It's the possibly OEM one in bottle form but with a long, folding crank arm, where you turn a thing on the jack to extend/retract it, so you can be very careful extending it, rather than it being a hydraulic pump arm.

Having a way to press it back together might be a problem too. But again, I could probably make a press for this task out of 2x4s and the bottle jack. It shouldn't need so much pressure that it would snap screwed together 2x4s. I need to buy some for properly repairing the bathroom ceiling structure in the RV anyway, so they wouldn't be going to waste.

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You don't need a vise to separate the headers from the cooler. I just use a screwdriver. I have some pictures on my website:

http://www.nickpisca.com/diesel/engine/6-9-and-7-3-idi-oil-cooler-repair/

As for putting it back together, in that article, I have a video showing how to do it on a press. The press is the easiest way, but I know that most people don't have one. The first 2 times I did the oil cooler re-seal, I used a floor jack and the underside of my workbench. As long as you aren't forcing the headers on (as shown on the video), you'll be fine.

I've never replaced an oil cooler on a van with the engine inside it. I haven't worked on many IDI powered vans (thank God!). What I can't remember is this, what type of bolts does the front header use? It seems like it may only use three bolts like an International application does. IIRC, an International uses bolts with a 3/8" 12 point head on them to hold the front header onto the block. I can't remember if the vans use the exact same set up as an IHC or not. As for reassembling the oil cooler, I run a ratchet strap around the whole thing lengthwise to hold it all together. I'll tighten the ratchet up as tightly as I can, but it's not quite enough to press the ends onto the O-rings. I'll then set one end on a wood block while giving the other ends a few love taps with a dead blow hammer.

IDIBRONCO said:

I've never replaced an oil cooler on a van with the engine inside it. I haven't worked on many IDI powered vans (thank God!). What I can't remember is this, what type of bolts does the front header use? It seems like it may only use three bolts like an International application does. IIRC, an International uses bolts with a 3/8" 12 point head on them to hold the front header onto the block. I can't remember if the vans use the exact same set up as an IHC or not. .

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When I was rebuilding my block last time, I drew up a diagram on the bolt sizes for the oil cooler for both the truck and vans. Here it is:



Source: http://www.nickpisca.com/diesel/engine/7-3-idi-torque-specs-and-bolt-dimensions-with-images/

The color denotes the van cooler bolts, and the shape denotes the truck cooler bolts.