Engine Removal Q&A

Ferd_Diesel

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Okay so my 93 f-350 7.3 e4od. Originally n/A. Added a factory turbo and 90cc pump. Believe the engine **** the bed. It would randomly start missing and shaking for a few seconds and go away when warmed up. Intermediate.eventually became a all the time thing. I believe it's something with the valve train. Pulled VC and everything seems good. found a factory turbo engine in my area with 240k on it supposedly runs. Torn between pulled current engine and having heads gone through, head studs, buy engine reseal kit and punch out coolant plugs and use the 6.9 style HG. Or buy the IDIT and stud it and throw it in.

I've never pulled an engine on a IDI. Done about everything else outside of opening one up. Easier to pull front clip? Any tips for pulling this out?

Is it worth it the buy new motor mounts? Was looking at pictures and doesnt look like theres any rubber but that's hard to believe
 

Ferd_Diesel

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Edit. Would only knock and shake when warmed up. Didnt seem to do it on initial start up and lower coolant temps. Have a video somewhere of it. It's hard to tell
 

Macrobb

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Edit. Would only knock and shake when warmed up. Didnt seem to do it on initial start up and lower coolant temps. Have a video somewhere of it. It's hard to tell
Sounds like your IP/injectors. It would do it worse when warmed up because the cold advance would turn off. Less advance = poor running, because the fuel is injected way too late.

Usually when you get to this point, the IP is very worn. Needs at least 6 degrees of advance to get back to 'decent' condition - quite a bit of movement when rotating the IP.
 

Randy Bush

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Okay so my 93 f-350 7.3 e4od. Originally n/A. Added a factory turbo and 90cc pump. Believe the engine **** the bed. It would randomly start missing and shaking for a few seconds and go away when warmed up. Intermediate.eventually became a all the time thing. I believe it's something with the valve train. Pulled VC and everything seems good. found a factory turbo engine in my area with 240k on it supposedly runs. Torn between pulled current engine and having heads gone through, head studs, buy engine reseal kit and punch out coolant plugs and use the 6.9 style HG. Or buy the IDIT and stud it and throw it in.

I've never pulled an engine on a IDI. Done about everything else outside of opening one up. Easier to pull front clip? Any tips for pulling this out?

Is it worth it the buy new motor mounts? Was looking at pictures and doesnt look like theres any rubber but that's hard to believe

Being a automatic it would come out fairly easy without pulling the front support. With a manual they are a little hard pulling. Motor mounts are a two piece unit, a metal bracket bolts to the block and then a mount with rubber in it bolts to engine part and frame. replace mounts if the look bad and loose. MY opinion , unless you are really try to jack a lot of HP out of the engine I really don't see the need for studs. Are a pretty strong engine as stock. I would do the IDIT if it was me even if had to rebuild it.
 

Ferd_Diesel

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Being a automatic it would come out fairly easy without pulling the front support. With a manual they are a little hard pulling. Motor mounts are a two piece unit, a metal bracket bolts to the block and then a mount with rubber in it bolts to engine part and frame. replace mounts if the look bad and loose. MY opinion , unless you are really try to jack a lot of HP out of the engine I really don't see the need for studs. Are a pretty strong engine as stock. I would do the IDIT if it was me even if had to rebuild it.
Well I'm going to try to keep the trans in so that shouldnt matter. Thank you for the info on the mounts. I knew there had to be rubber somewhere. And I'm not trying to jack a whole ton of hp but more than stock and like 250-300. I already have a 90cc pump and locked out wastegate so that's putting it near the danger zone. Dont eant yo worry about doing HG again but for $500 that's a hard to shallow. And if I was keeping it at stock level id prolly just use the engine I already have
 

Ferd_Diesel

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Sounds like your IP/injectors. It would do it worse when warmed up because the cold advance would turn off. Less advance = poor running, because the fuel is injected way too late.

Usually when you get to this point, the IP is very worn. Needs at least 6 degrees of advance to get back to 'decent' condition - quite a bit of movement when rotating the IP.
Could be. The injection pump is a R&D 90cc that was just gone over. Could be injectors but it was doing it on the old injectors. Put a different set in. I just got a set of injectors from rus. Put them in the 88 I just bought but it has HG or cavitation issue. Might put them in the 93 to give it one last shot. Want to get it back together so I can do a compression test to even see if the current engine is worth it
 

Macrobb

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Could be. The injection pump is a R&D 90cc that was just gone over. Could be injectors but it was doing it on the old injectors. Put a different set in. I just got a set of injectors from rus. Put them in the 88 I just bought but it has HG or cavitation issue. Might put them in the 93 to give it one last shot. Want to get it back together so I can do a compression test to even see if the current engine is worth it
One thing you can do is play with the timing - push in the advance lever on the side of the IP at idle. That will retard the timing. If it makes it much much worse, OK, you know you need some timing advance.

The workaround I like to do in this situation is to skip the IP gear one tooth "ahead" of the cam gear, which provides an extra 6 degrees of timing advance, allowing me to then fine-tune it by rotating the IP like normal. I do this by bringing the engine to TDC on #1, pulling the IP inspection cover off and marking where the locating pin is on the housing. Now, remove all 4 IP gear housing to block bolts, and pry up the IP gear housing with a small crowbar or screwdriver. You'll want to pry it up about 1/4", enough so you can rotate the IP one tooth ahead.
You will be rotating the IP gear clockwise when viewed from the front of the motor. That mark you made earlier is where you were originally(at tdc #1) if you go too far or back too far.
Once done, reinstall gear cover to block bolts and tighten down. Now start engine and see how it does.

The only downside to doing this is by breaking the seal of the IP cover to engine, you will end up with oil weeping there, but you can always go back and deal with that later. It's perfectly drivable like this indefinitely, if you don't mind a few drips.
 

Thewespaul

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One thing you can do is play with the timing - push in the advance lever on the side of the IP at idle. That will retard the timing. If it makes it much much worse, OK, you know you need some timing advance.

The workaround I like to do in this situation is to skip the IP gear one tooth "ahead" of the cam gear, which provides an extra 6 degrees of timing advance, allowing me to then fine-tune it by rotating the IP like normal. I do this by bringing the engine to TDC on #1, pulling the IP inspection cover off and marking where the locating pin is on the housing. Now, remove all 4 IP gear housing to block bolts, and pry up the IP gear housing with a small crowbar or screwdriver. You'll want to pry it up about 1/4", enough so you can rotate the IP one tooth ahead.
You will be rotating the IP gear clockwise when viewed from the front of the motor. That mark you made earlier is where you were originally(at tdc #1) if you go too far or back too far.
Once done, reinstall gear cover to block bolts and tighten down. Now start engine and see how it does.

The only downside to doing this is by breaking the seal of the IP cover to engine, you will end up with oil weeping there, but you can always go back and deal with that later. It's perfectly drivable like this indefinitely, if you don't mind a few drips.
You really don’t want to do that. It’s just a bandaid for a real issue that is treatable in the pump. Only a few things could make the pump that retarded, mostly related to low transfer pressure not making proper hydraulic advance in relation to rpm increase. I doubt it’s fuel related since this is a new pump, but say you had a retarded timing issue, the first thing I would check is the light load advance arm which you already mentioned. The cam ring tends to stick in the most retarded position, which would make the mechanical advance do nothing to the pumps timing, and with low transfer pressure it’s unlikely the cam ring will budge. The fix for this is a good dosing of atf, and properly adjusting the transfer pressure back into spec (90+ psi at 3000rpms). This is adjustable and measurable with the pump installed on the truck, with the correct equipment. Just advancing it a tooth is going to give you more timing, but sacrifice bottom end responsiveness and mpg that having the properly working mechanical advance gives, as well as loose out on fuel delivery from the low transfer pressure not feeding the charging chamber and plungers properly.
 

Ferd_Diesel

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You really don’t want to do that. It’s just a bandaid for a real issue that is treatable in the pump. Only a few things could make the pump that retarded, mostly related to low transfer pressure not making proper hydraulic advance in relation to rpm increase. I doubt it’s fuel related since this is a new pump, but say you had a retarded timing issue, the first thing I would check is the light load advance arm which you already mentioned. The cam ring tends to stick in the most retarded position, which would make the mechanical advance do nothing to the pumps timing, and with low transfer pressure it’s unlikely the cam ring will budge. The fix for this is a good dosing of atf, and properly adjusting the transfer pressure back into spec (90+ psi at 3000rpms). This is adjustable and measurable with the pump installed on the truck, with the correct equipment. Just advancing it a tooth is going to give you more timing, but sacrifice bottom end responsiveness and mpg that having the properly working mechanical advance gives, as well as loose out on fuel delivery from the low transfer pressure not feeding the charging chamber and plungers properly.
Thanks wes for the input. I dont think it has to do with retarded timing because i think it's very advanced. Alot more clatter than my 88 and other Idis I've been around and worked on. When I first bought this truck 5 years ago the original hydraulic advance was stuck so it would smoke and run rough on initial start up and clear out. Justin at R&D told me how I could advance timing but it was only a bandaid fix but worked good for the time being. I dont think this is the same issue and if it was timing related feel like it would have been consistent to when this started happening
 

Thewespaul

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Thanks wes for the input. I dont think it has to do with retarded timing because i think it's very advanced. Alot more clatter than my 88 and other Idis I've been around and worked on. When I first bought this truck 5 years ago the original hydraulic advance was stuck so it would smoke and run rough on initial start up and clear out. Justin at R&D told me how I could advance timing but it was only a bandaid fix but worked good for the time being. I dont think this is the same issue and if it was timing related feel like it would have been consistent to when this started happening
Does the miss correspond to a chuff out the exhaust? Usually valvetrain issues will have a loud chuff out the exhaust or intake. How much blow by do you have? When I broke the pistons in the shop truck and had almost no compression, I had a bad miss like you’re experiencing. Being yours is a na engine, I would suspect bent rods before piston failures.
 

Macrobb

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You really don’t want to do that. It’s just a bandaid for a real issue that is treatable in the pump. Only a few things could make the pump that retarded, mostly related to low transfer pressure not making proper hydraulic advance in relation to rpm increase. I doubt it’s fuel related since this is a new pump, but say you had a retarded timing issue, the first thing I would check is the light load advance arm which you already mentioned. The cam ring tends to stick in the most retarded position, which would make the mechanical advance do nothing to the pumps timing, and with low transfer pressure it’s unlikely the cam ring will budge. The fix for this is a good dosing of atf, and properly adjusting the transfer pressure back into spec (90+ psi at 3000rpms). This is adjustable and measurable with the pump installed on the truck, with the correct equipment. Just advancing it a tooth is going to give you more timing, but sacrifice bottom end responsiveness and mpg that having the properly working mechanical advance gives, as well as loose out on fuel delivery from the low transfer pressure not feeding the charging chamber and plungers properly.
But, what it will do is isolate the problem. It will immediately tell you if it's the pump(at which point you can return/repair/replace it), or not.
If you don't have another pump handy to try, IMHO it's a good test/bandaid fix.

Also, I'm not sure if it's typical to see the cam stuck in retarded or mostly retarded position, but I've run across this on several trucks, multiple pumps - severe retardation due to something wearing out.
 

Thewespaul

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But, what it will do is isolate the problem. It will immediately tell you if it's the pump(at which point you can return/repair/replace it), or not.
If you don't have another pump handy to try, IMHO it's a good test/bandaid fix.

Also, I'm not sure if it's typical to see the cam stuck in retarded or mostly retarded position, but I've run across this on several trucks, multiple pumps - severe retardation due to something wearing out.
Or you could just isolate it with a timing meter and watch what the timing curve does through the rpm range, and you wouldnt be breaking the seal on the timing gear cover giving you a permanent oil leak. That "something wearing out" is your transfer pump wearing and not delivering as much pressure, which is easily adjusted.
 

Ferd_Diesel

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Does the miss correspond to a chuff out the exhaust? Usually valvetrain issues will have a loud chuff out the exhaust or intake. How much blow by do you have? When I broke the pistons in the shop truck and had almost no compression, I had a bad miss like you’re experiencing. Being yours is a na engine, I would suspect bent rods before piston failures.
I believe it was making noise through intake. Exhaust sounded different. Started to rap at like 2500 rpm in park. Dual 4in tail pipe. Has and had a decent amount of blowby. The engine is NA but has a factory turbo kit on it with ww2, banks do, locked out wastegate,90cc pump non intercooled
 

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I believe it was making noise through intake. Exhaust sounded different. Started to rap at like 2500 rpm in park. Dual 4in tail pipe. Has and had a decent amount of blowby. The engine is NA but has a factory turbo kit on it with ww2, banks do, locked out wastegate,90cc pump non intercooled
What kind of money did they want for that IDIT engine? If cheap enough I would get it and rebuild then put the turbo on it. A much better and stronger engine IMO
 

Ferd_Diesel

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What kind of money did they want for that IDIT engine? If cheap enough I would get it and rebuild then put the turbo on it. A much better and stronger engine IMO
Hes asking 500. Going to see if he will trade for a latest gen banks kit I got from a parts truck. I know I could prolly get more if I just sold it but I wouldnt have to worry about shipping it and such
 
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