Need more gears.

carsonlhammond · Jun 7, 2019

So I've done a little research and I've come to find that an industrial t444e or whatever IH calls their industrial pstrokes has an sae bellhousing that will go on the back of an idi as well, and I've been thinking about how I've been finding that I need more low gears in my main trans in the area of norcal I'm at. Sometimes I start off with the rear output of the 205 in low, run up to 5th, then back to 3rd on the zf, then float the 205 to high. And I can do it very fast and smooth but it's gotta be taking its tole on the t-case. Do you guys think I should keep my current setup or go out and find a 7 speed spicer? I drive one in a feed truck with a 466 at work and I really like it. Or what other types of medium duty trans would best suit my needs? Also overdrive is necessary as I have 4.11's and 35's

Thewespaul · Jun 7, 2019

Why do you need to start in low? The zf has a really low 1st gear already, Ive never had issues with power or clutching to get a load rolling

u2slow · Jun 7, 2019

The diesel ZF S42 only has a 4.xx first gear. I have read in the past the diesel case can be reloaded with gas engine ratios. Might be worth investigating

http://www.dieselhub.com/trans/zf-5-speed.html

The medium duty trans sounds like a nice idea, but the install can be challenging. Plus adapting a tcase, or mounting a divorced one.

Randy Bush · Jun 7, 2019

That is why you need the wide ratio ZF5 5.72 :1 . Did that in my 93 dually and it made a puller out of it. I pull 18 to 20k behind mine and have no trouble starting out on an incline. Plus you have 5.24: 1 instead of 3.79: 1 in reverse. Pulled my part out of a 4x4 IDI case so they are out there.

oregon96psd · Jun 7, 2019

I'm pretty sure the good zf's came in powerstroke era pickups. The idi's had the high geared one's, I could be wrong though. I know my 97 has a way lower reverse than the early 90's zf I swapped into my 86.

Macrobb · Jun 7, 2019

You could always go with a gearvendor OD(which allows you to split a couple of gears), then go with a lower geared rear axle. Or, add more power if you need.

Now... admittedly, I've only started with perhaps 16K behind me(22K total), but I've not had issues starting in 1st high with that.

Randy Bush · Jun 7, 2019

oregon96psd said:
I'm pretty sure the good zf's came in powerstroke era pickups. The idi's had the high geared one's, I could be wrong though. I know my 97 has a way lower reverse than the early 90's zf I swapped into my 86.

From what I have read and researched both the close ratio and wide ratio transmission where used with IDI diesels.

carsonlhammond · Jun 8, 2019

Thewespaul said:
Why do you need to start in low? The zf has a really low 1st gear already, Ive never had issues with power or clutching to get a load rolling

u2slow said:
The diesel ZF S42 only has a 4.xx first gear. I have read in the past the diesel case can be reloaded with gas engine ratios. Might be worth investigating

http://www.dieselhub.com/trans/zf-5-speed.html

The medium duty trans sounds like a nice idea, but the install can be challenging. Plus adapting a tcase, or mounting a divorced one.

It has a divorced 205 from factory. And I pull upwards of 23k, its not so much needing the low gears to start off. It's more the fact the 3-4 gap (or 6-7 how I drive it) is a little tall for the powerband . Granted that was all N/A experience, I'm currently installing a turbo/ic. So we'll see how it does then, and to touch on the install, the hardest part would be to find an sae2 flywheel that matches the balance of the 6.9 I think. However they do exist as there are medium duty Eaton;clark;spicer tranny's installed on industrial 6.9's. I mean I already put the current engine and trans into a truck 2 bodystyles back. shouldn't be too hard to convert back to a mechanical clutch and make another trans crossmember.

franklin2 · Jun 8, 2019

They put our engines in school buses and the large u haul straight trucks with the medium duty transmission.

Macrobb · Jun 8, 2019

carsonlhammond said:
It's more the fact the 3-4 gap (or 6-7 how I drive it) is a little tall for the powerband .

Gearvendor Overdrive(while expensive) will let you split 3rd into 3rd, 3rd over. It feels about half-way between them.
In addition to the double OD(5th over) for highway cruising, especially with the extra power from the turbo.

u2slow · Jun 8, 2019

The physical size of SAE 2 hardware is probably the biggest obstacle in the narrow highboy frame. If the IDI medium-duty trans uses SAE3 things could be a little easier to fit.

I know from reading on folks' Fuller RTO swaps that the SAE2 setup is a tight fit even on newer trucks with wider frames (Ford and Dodge). The clutch actuation styles are usually cable or hydraulic, and can be push or pull.

carsonlhammond · Jun 8, 2019

u2slow said:
The physical size of SAE 2 hardware is probably the biggest obstacle in the narrow highboy frame. If the IDI medium-duty trans uses SAE3 things could be a little easier to fit.

I know from reading on folks' Fuller RTO swaps that the SAE2 setup is a tight fit even on newer trucks with wider frames (Ford and Dodge). The clutch actuation styles are usually cable or hydraulic, and can be push or pull.

The ESO66-7B is a very narrow trans as far as medium duty tranny's go. However the sae2 flywheel housing/adapter plate gets kinda big around the middle... I'm going to measure the adapter off one of our 5.9/eaton 6spd sae2 equipped water trucks tomorrow and see how feasible it would be to fit.

So far this is what I've tracked down.
https://www.vanderhaags.com/detailview.php?part=24200861

https://www.vanderhaags.com/detailview.php?part=24663835

u2slow · Jun 8, 2019

carsonlhammond said:
The ESO66-7B is a very narrow trans as far as medium duty tranny's go. However the sae2 flywheel housing/adapter plate gets kinda big around the middle... I'm going to measure the adapter off one of our 5.9/eaton 6spd sae2 equipped water trucks tomorrow and see how feasible it would be to fit.

Agreed, the trans itself isn't that big a deal. Don't forget the starter too

carsonlhammond · Jun 8, 2019

u2slow said:
Agreed, the trans itself isn't that big a deal. Don't forget the starter too

Yeah I was wondering how I would go about sourcing one. Might have to find a parts rig an just grab everything, use what I can and use part numbers off what I can't to get new stuff.

Randy Bush · Jun 8, 2019

Thewespaul said:
Why do you need to start in low? The zf has a really low 1st gear already, Ive never had issues with power or clutching to get a load rolling

when I first got my 93 IDIT dually it had the 4.14 low in it worse truck I ever for pulling a heavy load. Had to be careful on inclines starting out, had to rev it up to get going . and backing up was just as bad. Now with the 5.72 low can just let out on the clutch with out killing it and still rolls down the road 70-75 with out high RPM's 4.10 rear gears too.

Need more gears.

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