My facet mechanical to electric fuel pump conversion review.

tbrumm

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Well, it looks like Wes hit this one on the head - the Duralift does not like extreme cold! It "warmed" up to about 15 above this afternoon and the gauge was at 6.5 psi at idle. On the trip home, the fuel pressure would not drop below 3 psi with my foot to the floor pulling a hill. The Duralift was fine on Sunday when I used the truck, and it was 6 below then. So, I guess it is good to know that the Duralift will work until it gets a bit below zero, but after that it could leave ya stranded. Bet they don't use Duralifts in Alaska! Just one more "quirk" to help motivate me to find an alternative fuel pump. Kinda wish I still had the mechanical one.
 

DrCharles

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That's interesting... the manufacturer's catalog (Purolator) says -40 to +180F operating temp range. https://www.facet-purolator.com/wp-content/themes/twentysixteen/catalogpdf.pdf

I still wonder if even with anti-gel, the fuel is thickening at -15F (beginning wax formation but not completely gelled) and the pump can't suck enough to keep the pressure up. Which would be the same problem with a mechanical pump too, although it's not lifting quite as high as the inner fender where most of us mount the Facet.

Fortunately where I live, single digits is unusually cold and I have never seen below -5F overnight (once) in 17 years of living here!
 

MtnHaul

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So with a number of people having issues with their Facet lift pumps are we working our way towards NOT recommending them? Or at least a significant "Your Mileage May Vary" disclaimer? With the pump listed in my sig I have zero issues but admittedly less confidence now than when I first installed it. Is there another e-pump that has enough "field data" to suggest that it might be a superior replacement for the Facet? Don't get me wrong I like the Facet but it's unfortunate that some folks have gone to the trouble and expense to upgrade to something that might be inadequate for their needs.
 
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Thewespaul

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I don’t recommend them anymore, I run Holley pumps and the mr gasket 105p with great success
 

crabbypaul

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I have been running a Holley 12-801-1 electric fuel pump for over 10 years it has been on 2 different trucks it is power from a relay and draws about 2 amp. Its looking pretty rough in the photo.
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The_Josh_Bear

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So with a number of people having issues with their Facet lift pumps are we working our way towards NOT recommending them? Or at least a significant "Your Mileage May Vary" disclaimer? With the pump listed in my sig I have zero issues but admittedly less confidence now than when I first installed it. Is there another e-pump that has enough "field data" to suggest that it might be a superior replacement for the Facet? Don't get me wrong I like the Facet but it's unfortunate that some folks have gone to the trouble and expense to upgrade to something that might be inadequate for their needs.
I think the answer here is a big fat yes, do not recommend them. But with a disclaimer-- they work "fine". Stock setups will have less issues, but the more fuel you need and the more sensitive you are to injection timing the more you will notice the pump under-supplying. And of course IP condition plays a big role, I bet a worn out IP bleeds more pressure out the return than a tighter one.
I for one hooked up a gauge to mine and at idle got 8-9 psi but at WOT 2-3 and sometimes 1psi. This changes the timing about 4 degrees according to testing done by others with access to flow benches. This is not good for MPGs or performance. But like I said it works fine.
 

Thewespaul

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8-9 wont hurt anything, ideally you want 5-6.5 psi inlet pressure with as little variance as possible throughout the rpm curve. There’s some outdated info in that thread, being it’s 10 years old now. The stock pumps pretty much give 1-3psi throughout the rpm curve
 

DrCharles

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What's outdated about Mel's actual test numbers? :dunno And sn't the DB-2 the same pump is was 30 years ago? Please clarify which parts are wrong. thanks.
 

Thewespaul

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I didn’t say his test numbers were outdated, but there is some information in that thread that is. Since then, Mel has purchased his own flow benches when he bought cdi from the pump guy he refers to in the thread. I’ve talked to mel since then about fuel pressures and we both set up our pumps at 5-6.5 psi. The other thing I noticed is talking about high inlet pressure ruining how one of our pumps will perform, this has been proven since then to not be an issue on the right pumps. The db4831 h&r that we use to make our monster db2/db4 hybrid pumps is a good example, the h&r on those is reverse rotation from our db2s built for the 7.3s, so the transfer pump vanes are also facing the wrong way for rotation in the 7.3 and 6.9s since the db4831 only came on marine Detroits. To fix this Justin mel and myself have all removed the vanes from the tensfer pump and used an external electric pump to build that high pressure transfer pressure. I don’t see the super moose on their website anymore so I guess they no longer sell it, but when it was on there it discussed this, I believe it required 60 psi inlet pressure and an external fuel cutoff.
 

Clb

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There are several db-2s over the years....
would be nice to update the big tech threads.
but what we need is the pro's from dover to git together over some pizza and beerz and build a new 101 for
I.p.\injectors
Turbo\inercooler
AND fuel system pre eng.block...

As I got my facett just before the group buy guys started reporting issue's perhaps it could help someone down the line?!


Or how about a mid summer technology ralley?
yea I know, easier said....
 
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DrCharles

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Ok, thanks Wes. So if a stock mech pump only maintains 1-3 psi, and IPs are set up for 5-6.5 psi, what effect does that have on timing and performance?

Do the Holley pumps (noisy little coffee-grinders!) hold up with diesel fuel?
 

Thewespaul

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There are several db-2s over the years....
would n nice to update the big tech threads.
but what we need is the pro's from dover to git together over some pizza and beerz and build a new 101 for
I.p.\injectors
Turbo\inercooler
AND fuel system pre eng.block...


Or how about a mid summer technology ralley?
yea I know, easier said....
I agree, I’ve considered suggesting some edits but I don’t like to step on toes. Some Pizza beer and diesel we could figure something out I’m sure.
 

Thewespaul

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Ok, thanks Wes. So if a stock mech pump only maintains 1-3 psi, and IPs are set up for 5-6.5 psi, what effect does that have on timing and performance?

Do the Holley pumps (noisy little coffee-grinders!) hold up with diesel fuel?
It means that the injection pump won’t have the timing curve it was calibrated for on the test bench, so likely a loss of performance/mileage. When choosing a pump, it’s better to go with something that’s more than enough and regulate it for your application, instead of something without a regulator that’s just enough to hold some positive pressure into the pump, which is the minimum it needs to function.

I posted this previously:
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This is the pumping portion of a Mr gasket 105p, which is pretty much identical to the jegs/Holley/etc brand of this style pump. The portion that actually does the pumping is metal, so it’s gonna pump no matter what as long as it rotates and has a decent seal against the housing. what changes a pumps fuel rating is the seals made for the shaft and housing, I haven’t had any issues with these leaking on these style pumps, but if you were running wvo and wanted to make sure your pump would work, you could change out the seals for some viton seals off McMaster Carr.
 

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