Batteries load tested ok but voltage dropping

79jasper

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20+ years... Nope nothing has changed, lead, acid and distilled water nothing more... Only change I can remember is the sealed battery, no ports, no way to check water and acid strength. Buy, use, throw away.
That's interesting.
Do you think battery quality has gone down? (No new lead, all recycled)
Or Is the lower usable life a result of increased loads? (Bells and whistles)

Personally I bought the neverstarts from Wally for the 6.0, doing great. Next batteries I buy will be AGM.

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Cubey

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That's interesting.
Do you think battery quality has gone down? (No new lead, all recycled)
Or Is the lower usable life a result of increased loads? (Bells and whistles)

Personally I bought the neverstarts from Wally for the 6.0, doing great. Next batteries I buy will be AGM.

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My guess is probably thickness of the lead, how clean it was made, and perhaps even the acid quality. Since you can't see into the batteries, it's a crapshoot what you will get. Especially when batteries get completely changed like the WM Maxx 65, from caps to no caps suddenly. Are the capless ones better internally or worse? Who can say without buying them and cutting them open.
 

Cubey

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Hm, it doesn't list a warranty period and membership would add $30 per battery, so for me it doesn't make sense, but Costco is selling an "exclusive" (read as, made crappier?) Interstate 65 battery for $95. Figured I'd post it anyway to anyone who might find it interesting.


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jwalterus

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20+ years... Nope nothing has changed, lead, acid and distilled water nothing more... Only change I can remember is the sealed battery, no ports, no way to check water and acid strength. Buy, use, throw away.

Sounds like our society in general. Everything is disposable now to make it cheaper.
Take faucets for example, 20 years ago your faucet would have a metal body, solid brass valves that could be rebuilt, and a real chromed finish. Now it's plastic.
If you notice, the dollar is not worth as much as it was 10 years ago, but prices on most things are pretty well the same, either things have to go up in price, or the manufacturing has to be cheapened.

That's interesting.
Do you think battery quality has gone down? (No new lead, all recycled)
Or Is the lower usable life a result of increased loads? (Bells and whistles)

Personally I bought the neverstarts from Wally for the 6.0, doing great. Next batteries I buy will be AGM.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Are the capless ones better internally or worse? Who can say without buying them and cutting them open.

2011-2013 the plates got thinner (20-50% depending on the brand) and lead purity went down on ALL lead acid batteries across the board. I can't say if it's because of recycled lead or what, but there's definitely tin in the mix now.
I remember this distinctly and know it for a fact because shot batteries are my cheap source of lead for casting jigs and projectiles.
It's also when warranties got shorter, my 2010 Delcos had a 6 year free replacement warranty, the current production has a 42 month free replacement....
I have a 2009 dated Everstart in my "to be cut up" collection that has a 48 month free/60 month pro-rated warranty on the case, the current one (same model) shows a 2 year free replacement with no pro-rated period. I only remember this one so clearly because I picked it up Wed afternoon.
I have noticed sealed "maintenance free" batteries seem to have more and thicker plates these days, but I have yet to see one with a full acid load when I open it, possibly thicker plates to keep power acceptable as the acid concentrates and the level gets lower?
BTW, if you compare old (30+ years) batteries to the newer ones, plates used to be 1/8-1/4" thick, now they are under .100" thick, but there are more plates per stack.

AGM and gel batteries are the devil for my purposes, it's a a PITA to neutralize the acid in them, but I have a feeling in the future AGM will be the standard.
 

nostrokes

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That's interesting.
Do you think battery quality has gone down? (No new lead, all recycled)
Or Is the lower usable life a result of increased loads? (Bells and whistles)

Personally I bought the neverstarts from Wally for the 6.0, doing great. Next batteries I buy will be AGM.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Probably both. All the computers, radio/navigation, wifi transponders ect ect... It's a wonder cars even turn on anymore.

Funny thing is I watched a episode of Jay Lenos Garage, he was showing off an electric car from 1919 or so. Still had the original batteries in it........ Just don't make them like they used too
 

Cubey

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Sounds like our society in general. Everything is disposable now to make it cheaper.
Take faucets for example, 20 years ago your faucet would have a metal body, solid brass valves that could be rebuilt, and a real chromed finish. Now it's plastic.

Planned obsolescence was dreamed up in the 1930s, if not before then. It's far from a new thing.

The real reason products are suffering is to keep prices low due to lack of proper wage increases.

Several years ago, an old man in this 70s at a Walmart proudly proclaimed how a plastic footlocker hadn't gone up in price in 30 years.

Maybe so, but it's probably made a lot worse quality and being made in China now. But people prefer low prices over USA made, which is partly why they are so broke compared to 40 years ago. Such is human nature, they would rather slit their own throat than pay $5-10 more on a hunk of plastic.
 

nostrokes

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Planned obsolescence was dreamed up in the 1930s, if not before then. It's far from a new thing.

The real reason products are suffering is to keep prices low due to lack of proper wage increases.

Several years ago, an old man in this 70s at a Walmart proudly proclaimed how a plastic footlocker hadn't gone up in price in 30 years.

Maybe so, but it's probably made a lot worse quality and being made in China now. But people prefer low prices over USA made, which is partly why they are so broke compared to 40 years ago. Such is human nature, they would rather slit their own throat than pay $5-10 more on a hunk of plastic.


That's where I'm the opposite, I'd rather pay extra for quality not quantity. If people would realize that a few extra dollars for quality is better that buying the same junk several times in a row.
 

Cubey

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That's where I'm the opposite, I'd rather pay extra for quality not quantity. If people would realize that a few extra dollars for quality is better that buying the same junk several times in a row.


Well at this point, half the country is poor and probably can't afford the better goods. Hence the importance of cheaper junk goods because at least big biz can keep selling stuff to impoverished people.

If you have $30 to spend on a faucet and a plastic junk one is $20, while a better metal one is $40, you don't have much choice but to buy the junk one, unless you want to skip a few meals. Proper wages would solve that by and large. The more money people get, the more they have to spend. The average person spends 90-100% of their monthly income, unlike the rich.
 

jwalterus

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Well at this point, half the country is poor and probably can't afford the better goods. Hence the importance of cheaper junk goods because at least big biz can keep selling stuff to impoverished people.

If you have $30 to spend on a faucet and a plastic junk one is $20, while a better metal one is $40, you don't have much choice but to buy the junk one, unless you want to skip a few meals. Proper wages would solve that by and large. The more money people get, the more they have to spend. The average person spends 90-100% of their monthly income, unlike the rich.

I disagree.
With your apparent support for a universal wage hike, it shows you to be one of people who don't understand basic economics or cause and effect. Please post about it in the refinery so I can educate you.
Poor people cannot afford to buy cheap things, and if you can't pay cash, you can't afford it.
If people followed the second part of that, then an emergency expense (like a faucet coming apart) is absorbable on a credit card, and if you have to pay $200 (for a QUALITY faucet, which aren't actually sold at Menards/Lowes/Home Depot, ask a plumber) spread over 6 months on a card, that person that can only afford $20/check can afford to do it.
In the very first place, the person in that scenario looking at the faucet should repair their existing one, and only replace it if it's completely beyond repair internally (which is doubtful unless it's the cheap plastic one to begin with).
The plastic budget faucets were originally designed to be used in damage-prone rentals, heck, I can remember when the blister pack bath faucets were $10 and said "rental property faucet" on the packaging. The only reason I used a faucet as an example is it's something everyone can picture.
The problem is the attitude of entitlement in this country.
You don't NEED that fancy smart phone and the "unlimited" plan, most people don't NEED a cell phone at all, but people don't understand the difference between a LUXURY and a NEED anymore.
If you are in that financial position, you need to rethink all the crap you have, and you need to trim the fat in your budget.
You used to rent an apartment because it was a lot cheaper (30%-60%) and didn't require the same credit as buying a house, or because you didn't plan to live in one place for more than a couple of years.
Nowadays it's not much cheaper in most parts of the country (generally less than 10%), and in many places it's actually more expensive, but people aren't willing to scrimp and save to have a down payment, nor are they willing to do the research and legwork to get a true $0 down mortgage.

Here's a list of things most people can save money on every month if money's tight: 1) Buy ONLY off brand everything, 2) downgrade your cell phone and plan, get rid of it if you need to, if your job requires one, they should be providing one (I've had that argument before), 3) lower your internet speed at home or just plain get rid of it, you can go to the public library daily if you need to, 4) don't go out to eat ever (including coffee and drinks), my lunch costs me less than $1 every day 5) get rid of cable tv, 6) don't waste money buying music, the radio is free.
There are many more things people can do, but most people aren't willing to do any of the above to begin with, if they feel like they can't afford anything extra, people don't want to give up the luxuries they do have, even if it means bettering their position in life.

Growing up, my family never had any disposable income, my parents were raising 4 kids on an enlisted military budget, if we couldn't fix it, we went without it.
Since we couldn't afford to replace something if it crapped out, we'd buy the best quality we possibly could, even if it meant waiting and saving up an extra few weeks/months/years. Using layaway was normal for us.
I still do that, and I'm not in the same boat financially.
My household is frugal and generally does without on things if we don't NEED them, which allows us easily $1000 in truly disposable income monthly (without me working any overtime, and with my 401k getting fat), does that make us rich in your eyes? It makes us smart, not rich, in my eyes.
All we do is pay our bills every check, buy our groceries, fill all the fuel tanks, and put a bit of cash aside in the safe. We don't even consider going shopping until it all clears. But this means I can give my kids things I could never have even asked for growing up.
You'd be surprised how many people I know who make six-digit incomes and live paycheck-to-paycheck, just because they make poor financial decisions.

Allow me to step off my soapbox. ;)
 

Cubey

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That's notbing more than an anecdote and opinion. Too much of that being applied to actual policy is the problem. Do research by economists and see what they have to say.

But again I'll simplify it:

The more money the average person makes, the more they have to spend. That drives up demand for goods and services. It means businesses have more customers and need more employees, which they can afford due to the extra revenue. Since it creates more jobs, it puts even more money into people'sl hands, and the cycle repeats. It also increases tax revenue for roads, schools, parks, etc since more money is flowing. A bigger paycheck also allows people to save more for larger purchases like cars or homes.

Starving people for wages and shaming them for a few luxeries is an ******* thing to do, considering many people are working 2 or 3 jobs anymore and still can't get by. They have to do the work of 2 or 3 people which takes away jobs from others. You do get that right? If the wages were proper on both jobs, most people would only take one, rather than killing themselves working two. That frees up the second for someone else, lowering unemployment.

It also increases more revenue for everyone as I described.

You are clearly in a position of financial comfort, so it's doubly ****** for you to look down your nose at the poor. Shame on you. Do you go to soup kitchens and tell everyone how they are to blame for their poverty too? Why not? If your theory is sound, maybe you should go educate them about not buying a candy bar or the better silver tarp for sleeping under the highway bridge, go buy the cheaper blue tarp to save $5 because heaven knows, $5 will get them out of poverty and living like kings! It's their fault their poor, right? Not the corrupt system. They'd rather stay impoverished than not, right? Oh wait, that's never been the case.
 
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Cubey

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Also, you need a telephone and internet access today. It's required for employment. Landlines cost about as much as prepaid, unlimited cell service, so its cheaper to get a $50-60 unlimited cell plan than it is to get a landline and home internet. Maybe you haven't heard but people are NOT buying new, high end cell phones at the rate they used to. The used market is bigger than ever.

If anyone its spoiled and self entitled its you. "I didn't suffer because i was luckier in life so it's peoples own fault people are poor". Sounds like a spoiled brat, to me.

Don't think it's luck that some people do better? Case in point: Myspace vs Facebook. It was just bloody luck.
 

austin92

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I did A LOT of research and comparing when I needed a set of batteries. I always loved the yellow top in my jeep so when I first got my 83 I made an uniformed decision and bought a set of red tops. I think they were 700cca... yes they started the truck but didn’t have the reserve capacity and I ran them dead multiple times last winter so I started reading and taking a paper and pen to places that sold batteries.

The top 3 group 65 wet cells I liked were;
-duralast golds. Made by Johnson control, 84mo warranty, 171$.
-Napa legend. Deka, 75mo, 125$
-everstart maxx. Johnson control, 36mo, 93$

All 850cca with 150 minute reserve. I liked duralasts for the warranty, Napa’s because they’re deka’s, and Walmart’s for the price. Bought the Napa’s.

I REALLY wanted the odyssey 65-pc1750. They’re made in USA with pure ****** lead, agm, 950cca, 145 minute reserve with a 4 year free replacement warranty. Found them on eBay for 276$ a piece which I just couldn’t afford at the time.


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Cubey

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The top 3 group 65 wet cells I liked were;
-duralast golds. Made by Johnson control, 84mo warranty, 171$.
-Napa legend. Deka, 75mo, 125$
-everstart maxx. Johnson control, 36mo, 93$

A sudden change, a few days ago, of the EverStart Maxx literally says Exide in the title. Maybe they just switched, as the ones they dropped had raised caps, where the new are glued flat. To save you hunting for the screenshot in this thread, I'll post it again here.

Duralast gold are only 36 free/60 total (now)
https://m.autozone.com/batteries-st...ttery/duralast-gold-battery/53433_31059_25697

If I was going to spend $140 each on batteries, I'd probably get the Motorcraft 65-850s. But that's almost $100 more over Walmart for a pair. They have very long prorated warranties and last a long time, so I have read.


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