Need help... Bronco stuck on worksite... alternator maybe...

[Dave 001]

3G is simple swap...I can help with if you like...WELL worthwhile eliminate the external regulator and so forth so easy, swapping pulleys is a no brainer...easy peasy!

Why do so many people put down the external regulator? In 25 years of wrench bending, I don't ever recall one going bad. Regulators run much cooler mounted on the fender then they do mounted inside a hot alternator. And everybody knows heat is what kills electronics. Ford's large case 1G alternator is a rock solid, dependable alternator. The one in my previous truck lasted 180,000+ miles and never missed a beat. Never any bearing noise, diode problems, winding problems, or regulator problems. The brushes finally wore down to nothing. If that's the first thing to go, that's pretty darn good. And that was powering an electric hungry EFI engine and recharging several dead batteries over the years.

If I recall correctly, Ford's first internally regulated alternator (2G ??) had lots of melt down problems, wires burning up, etc. Yeah, that's what I want!

To each their own but I'll take a 100 amp 1G over a 3G anyday.

Dave

 

[sassyrel]

Why do so many people put down the external regulator? In 25 years of wrench bending, I don't ever recall one going bad. Regulators run much cooler mounted on the fender then they do mounted inside a hot alternator. And everybody knows heat is what kills electronics. Ford's large case 1G alternator is a rock solid, dependable alternator. The one in my previous truck lasted 180,000+ miles and never missed a beat. Never any bearing noise, diode problems, winding problems, or regulator problems. The brushes finally wore down to nothing. If that's the first thing to go, that's pretty darn good. And that was powering an electric hungry EFI engine and recharging several dead batteries over the years.

If I recall correctly, Ford's first internally regulated alternator (2G ??) had lots of melt down problems, wires burning up, etc. Yeah, that's what I want!

To each their own but I'll take a 100 amp 1G over a 3G anyday.

Dave

in over 45 years of wrneching,,ive seen about twelve or so regs that were bad.. buts thats from working on tons of vehicles,,and i was mostly working on Fords..

 

[riotwarrior]

OK I'll chime in...like 6 maybe 8-9 regs bad....one-two bad chevy alt internally reg...never a bad internally reg ford one yet! 3G is just the simple easy way to go now cheap, dependable, easy to find, JM2CW..

If I wanted a low output alt I'd go for a 1G for sure! The 3 G at idle puts out more than the 1G at full speed! That in and of it's self is sufficient reason for me to swap!

Kinda like this...
6.9/7.3 IDI old...tried and true engine, reliable, can be made a lil more powerful, parts somewhat ok to find...= 1G

7.3 Power Stroke...newer technology, reliable...some would say no some yes, can be made alot more powerful, parts ok to find = 3G

SIMPLE...3G is newer tech and actually a decent product...Leece Neville...again good stuff...but can be ***** to find...Ford 1G...again...old school...

JM2CW

 

[Dave 001]

OK I'll chime in...like 6 maybe 8-9 regs bad....one-two bad chevy alt internally reg...never a bad internally reg ford one yet! 3G is just the simple easy way to go now cheap, dependable, easy to find, JM2CW..

If I wanted a low output alt I'd go for a 1G for sure! The 3 G at idle puts out more than the 1G at full speed! That in and of it's self is sufficient reason for me to swap!

Kinda like this...
6.9/7.3 IDI old...tried and true engine, reliable, can be made a lil more powerful, parts somewhat ok to find...= 1G

7.3 Power Stroke...newer technology, reliable...some would say no some yes, can be made alot more powerful, parts ok to find = 3G

SIMPLE...3G is newer tech and actually a decent product...Leece Neville...again good stuff...but can be ***** to find...Ford 1G...again...old school...

JM2CW

So put a Power Stroke in your truck then and get rid of the old school IDI.

All this talk about how many amps a 3G puts out.....Who cares? It seems like a "macho measuring" thing to me. With all the accessories "ON" in the truck, what's the amp draw? 35 amps? All the "extra" capacity of the 3G is a waste. Don't get me wrong...if you got 8 off-road lights a glowing, you probably got to do some up-grading. But to do a swap for no reason...why bother?

And a 3G at idle doesn't put out more than a 1G at full speed.......that's just stupid talk.

To each their own.
Dave

 

[riotwarrior]

So put a Power Stroke in your truck then and get rid of the old school IDI.

All this talk about how many amps a 3G puts out.....Who cares? It seems like a "macho measuring" thing to me. With all the accessories "ON" in the truck, what's the amp draw? 35 amps? All the "extra" capacity of the 3G is a waste. Don't get me wrong...if you got 8 off-road lights a glowing, you probably got to do some up-grading. But to do a swap for no reason...why bother?

And a 3G at idle doesn't put out more than a 1G at full speed.......that's just stupid talk.

To each their own.
Dave

If I wanted a PS I'd install one, for reasons that are my own I'd rather have an IDI....so thanks but no thanks for the suggestion!

Well without knowing what the OP has for accessories...tis just a suggestion...hence JM2CW (JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH)...but do not discount the idea because you don't like it!

Do not discount that which you may or may not know anything about or have researched significantly either....I'd suggest some light reading here
http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26658

Also as for myself...the 3G swap solves many issues....great light output at low engine speed due to increased voltage/amperage available! Less loss on my system when using lights, radios and stereo...

The simple fact it is easier to isolate RF noise in my electrical system when I have less items in the system. Take for example a voltage regulator..another point for RF or other electrical problems.

These are just suggestions I make...not that the OP has to follow the suggestions...just food for thought so please again do not be so quick to discount the idea of another who may indeed have some experience and knowledge on the subject matter

Thx

 

[89dieselbko]

OK, so, since yesterday i plugged in a new regulator and no change, i ordered the alternator *as previously said* installed it, showing about 12.9 running... improvement, but still wrong. But while installing it, i noticed my alt Vbelt is lose. But its also pretty hairy looking, not cracked and peeling but still mighty ugly.

So i grabbed one to put on, havent got that far yet tho. Also grabbed a new vac pump belt. other 2 look good. Anyways, could my belt be slipping? it doesnt look like its worn down from slipping or anything, but idk. I checked all my wiring when i was stuck on the job site, everything was good. Fuseable link was dirty, slight corrosion. I cleaned it up, fuse itself is good. Like i said, i was running a 160a 3g on my 302, i need to switch it over, just need the time to look up the wiring changes, and make a diagram and get it done. But shaking down any other potential issues with my swap are first. Really liked the 3g on the bronco, could run EVERYTHING, including a power inverter for my labtop and hook my battery charger to the inverter and charge my trailers batterys when they get low. I havent got to test what i can do now, working with 100a *when i get the alternator issue solved* but i assume ill have to upgrade, and its coming.

Really hope changing the belt fixes my charge... with good wires, grounds and fuse link, as well as every other i could find... new alt barely a change, new reg did nothing. im really going to be stumped if a new belt dont fix it... at least im off work till monday to figure it out

 

[89dieselbko]

ok, so, belts didnt fix it, needless to say i was a bit... upset. So im ripping the entire damn thing apart and puttin my 3g on it. In the middle of doing that as i type this, but i believe i found my problem. Charge wire (which i checked, cleaned contacts and fuse) is garbage. ends looked good, but the inside of the wire was nasty with green corrosion. Think it was my issue, but i dont know for sure, all i do know is i wont be having this problem anymore, with my 3g

Appreciate the help guys, Wish things could be simpler/easier to diagnose tho

 

[riotwarrior]

ok, so, belts didnt fix it, needless to say i was a bit... upset. So im ripping the entire damn thing apart and puttin my 3g on it. In the middle of doing that as i type this, but i believe i found my problem. Charge wire (which i checked, cleaned contacts and fuse) is garbage. ends looked good, but the inside of the wire was nasty with green corrosion. Think it was my issue, but i dont know for sure, all i do know is i wont be having this problem anymore, with my 3g

Appreciate the help guys, Wish things could be simpler/easier to diagnose tho

EXCELLENT....BOUT TIME! Not sure if you seen this http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=75

This is what I had for a fusable link...could charge...but not well!

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Kinda was not noticeable until I started poking around....then found it...oops...so stuck a new wire in it's place and voila...good to go!...shortly after that charge issues again...Voltage REG went...ALT good...so just changed reg...

I'll be swapping 3G when I install in Bronco! not until...no point...and then use the 1G as a welder! or at least attempt too...lol

 

[colorado_joe]

I've been having some charging problems of my own lately, and have been reading my Ford Service Manuals, chasing wires, and following all the wiring hack jobs of previous owners.

The only question I have right now that's relevant to the above post, is where exactly is the fusable line between the starter solenoid and the alternator?

For some reason I think a previous owner removed it! I think it would be right next to the starter solenoid, connected to a black wire, that is spliced with a smaller gauge yellowish/white wire and then disappears into the alternator harness. That's also the best place that makes sense to me for one.

If I'm right, mine's missing. What size fusable link should I get to splice in?

Thanks.

 

[89dieselbko]

ill tell you what i was going to do... *got my 3g in sunday afternoon, working great * and ended up doing with the 3g swap...

Went to advance and bought a battery to starter solenoid cable. Advance F-ed me and didnt have any mega fuses
Went to NAPA and bought a 150 amp mega fuse. Thing to remember with fuseable links is most manufacturers recommend 3-4 gauges smaller wire for the fuse section.
Put it in the above mentioned new wire. it is JUST long enough, maybe 3 inches of play in the wire, and i will be picking up a longer one on my way home friday to replace it.

most alternators when new will put out slightly higher amps than what they are when you buy them. The 100amp i bought mentioned earlier in this thread tested out at 107 amp. The 3G i just put in is a 130, but when i got it tested before i put it on my 302 was like 143 amp at 2200ish RPM (if memory serves, and it seldom does correctly) So go with one slightly higher then the amperage on the alternator you have. if you get a 100A and your alt is a 100A it will blow the fuse constantly. The point of the fuse is a break point if things go bad. so if amps bounce up high for some reason (im not that electrical savvy... something shorts out maybe?) it will pop the fuse and you will know you have a problem somewhere.... hope that helps you colorado joe! There are many many many smarter people then me on here that might have a better explanation on what fuse to use. but you will need one bigger then what you can put out, that much im 100% sure of.

Also i honestly dont know what the fuseable link is for the trucks, my old cable was in great shape, wasnt burnt at all so i assume the fuse was still good. If you strip your charge wire im sure its hiding in there somewhere. Since my wiring wasnt burnt, or corroded or anything i assume mine was good

I should add, for those early in this post nay-saying the 3g. I really didnt *want* to do it now, but it solved my problems, and this alternator gave me many trouble free years on the old 302. Maybe its not for everyone, and is a bit overkill for what i use the bronco for.... but then again, you dont hear horror stories about 3g alts dying, at least not prematurely as obviously everything gets old and worn out eventually. But then the same could be said about the few members with 6.9/7.3 in their bronco... sure it never came there, and there are *potentially* better options... but where is the fun in that!

On a side note... took my 3 FREAKING HOURS to get the Vbelt pulleys off my old alt and onto the 3g... damn impact wrench would NOT break them lose, and it was recessed so i couldnt fit the allen head on AND the socket... ended up running them to my local shop that does all the crappy things i hate doing... 5 bucks and HIS impact gun took care of it hehe. Took about an hour to finish after that (had to get on here and look up wiring changes going from external reg to internal reg) and well worth it IMO. Should have done it when i swapped the motor in and not had to worry or have the issues i did, but you live and learn... then you get drunk in celebration of being just a little smarter!

 

[icanfixall]

Some year ago I had the battery lite coming on and off all the time. I did everything I could to fix it. At that time I had the stock 1 G alternater and remote voltage regulater. Replaced them as a just because. Still had the problem. This lasted for about a year. Then one nite at the stable after dropping off the trailer the battery lite came on again. So in the dark I'm looking at everything under the hood. Flashlite was going dead too. Then I see a spark flash at the stock wire harness to the alternater. Closer examination shows the green wire was broken. The lug had the wire clamped to it but just under the clamp where the bare wire was clamped to the brass lug was broken. I have no idea how this wire broke there but it did. So I cut off that lug and crimped on another one. Problem solved. No way I could have found that in daylite thats for sure...

 

[riotwarrior]

I've been having some charging problems of my own lately, and have been reading my Ford Service Manuals, chasing wires, and following all the wiring hack jobs of previous owners.

The only question I have right now that's relevant to the above post, is where exactly is the fusable line between the starter solenoid and the alternator?

For some reason I think a previous owner removed it! I think it would be right next to the starter solenoid, connected to a black wire, that is spliced with a smaller gauge yellowish/white wire and then disappears into the alternator harness. That's also the best place that makes sense to me for one.

If I'm right, mine's missing. What size fusable link should I get to splice in?

Thanks.

The red wire connected to the black wire...is where the Fusible link goes...this is a quick n dirty get me running job not a proper fix so please do not judge the stupid double crimps... Don't ask won't tell...

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Notice the tracer colour in the next photo on the BLACK wire looks whitish/yellowish....when indeed further up the wire it's clearly RED this is the "Charge" wire that the former burnt but working fusible link was attached too

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My 3G setup that will be going BACK into the Bronco which it came from

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I use a 200 AMP fuse on my 250 AMP alt because I want the fuse to blow before the ALT gets taken out...that's my theory in case the field collapses or shorts out internally......Better to protect that expensive ALT with small fuse than let it go nuts and thermal nuclear meltdown!...but that's my take on it...Some may dissagree

There will be a fuse on the GROUND wire too when I can afford another as I'm **** that way....redundant fuse's...redundant safety...

Hope these pics help you out...

Oh and another note...this is my weather station I replaced batteries on yesterday...still had to set time/date...but the idea is..

48.1 Degrees Celsius in the sun! for you in the US that is....

118.58 degree Fahrenheit Ya we get heat in Canada!

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Enjoy!

 

[gdhillon]

Jeez Al, its 25 here and we're complaining

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeolsEvzqz4 is this how you did yours?

 

[riotwarrior]

Gavin,

Nope I have a different setup and I'll be using the Serp belt for the diesel, I have to change my rear 1/2 of the 3G case the the stud mount that has mount bosses perpendicular to the axis of the alt.

Hope that helps...

I have yet to do the case swap, when I do, I'll post it online here as a case swap tech article!!!!