First 750 miles, New IDI engine

[Dave7.3]

I read many different manufactures owners manuals, I have now a 2002 Mercury Mountaneer and also a Nissan Armada I have been reading.

Anyway most people who change thier oil as often as 3 months 3000 miles also can experience (unscheduled maintence) AKA "Run to Failure"
From many things, like coolant contamination, Air filter system breach, to name just a few.

Just blindly changing oil can mask symptoms of failure, coolant in the oil does not mean your oil will turn to milk shake with 2%/5% coolant intrusion, It will jelly up the inside of the engine, and a routine oil change wont show this.
But a UOA will show this thousands of miles or even years before it causes you a day of "Unscheduled maintence".

I dont need any verification from jiffylube on 3000 mile drains.

many 2011 model Fords will have 10,000 mile oil change intervals.

I know you are against ruining a good engine with expensive oil and used oil analysis, It simply is way too much data to absorb in such a short time between 3month 3000 mile oil changes

I need Data to make decisions and without it I will spend much more money than I needed.

I hope it is ok I use $150 for 5 gallons of oil. I think it has much more VALUE than lower priced oils.
I can only say this cause I have years of DATA to prove to ME that I went in the right direction.

If you like to learn something just keep reading, if not leave it alone

For the ones who want a third party evaluation of engine oils that is up to date and is factual, here ya go>>>>> http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Art..._and_other_reasons_to_change_oil__part_1.aspx

I hope I can help people understand that using low quality petrolium will cost you thousands of dollars extra operating your equiptment, Have it your way...

Javier

Even though checking obvious things like your coolant, oil and air filter would also help you identify problems like you listed above. "Gee, my coolant seems to be going somewhere and my oil level continues to rise." Well now, I don't need an oil analysis to point out the obvious, do I?

As far as 2011 vehicles having 10,000 mile intervals? How about some photos rather than more wives' tales?

I hope you realize that no one ever stops learning throughout their lifetime, seeing as you are so set on thinking you know it all. In fact, with your attitude of treating everyone like half brained idiots, I'm surprised your shop can keep customers. You can try and sell me on your best snake oil all you want, but generations of trucks using conventional oil prove that our "low grade" oil still WORKS. Until I see other compelling, UNBIASED information, I will continue using what works.

And no, some no-name independent lab will not cut it for me. Not for the price of $150 it certainly would not! Besides, if Amsoil is so bulletproof, why isn't everyone using it?

I'm finished battling with an Amsoil dealer. You simply can't muscle people into a product. I actually do plan on switching to synthetic when my engine gets to where it needs a rebuild (afterward of course), but if the rest of the Amsoil community is like you, I will stay FAR away from it!

 

[jhnlennon]

I'm finished battling with an Amsoil dealer. You simply can't muscle people into a product. I actually do plan on switching to synthetic when my engine gets to where it needs a rebuild, but if the rest of the Amsoil community is like you, I will stay FAR away from it!

My sentiments exactly.......

 

[stumpjumper3]

Are you saying you pay 150 dollars for an oil analysis? Before i buy i used vehicle i get samples done for 13 bucks a pop at CAT. They print everything out and can test any fluid. Conventional oil works. Plain and simple. I love synthetics dont get me wrong. Run them in all the other boxes. Just not the engine. Same with trucks. Synthetic in the trans, both diffs. But conventional oil in the motor. Trucks have been getting a million miles on conventional oil for years with proper maintainence, so i dont see an issue with conventional oil

 

[Dave7.3]

Are you saying you pay 150 dollars for an oil analysis? Before i buy i used vehicle i get samples done for 13 bucks a pop at CAT. They print everything out and can test any fluid. Conventional oil works. Plain and simple. I love synthetics dont get me wrong. Run them in all the other boxes. Just not the engine. Same with trucks. Synthetic in the trans, both diffs. But conventional oil in the motor. Trucks have been getting a million miles on conventional oil for years with proper maintainence, so i dont see an issue with conventional oil

I'm not sure if you are referring to me or not, but I was referring to the $150 investment in Amsoil and my criticisms about their competitive testing. Not about the UOA. I am thinking about getting a baseline UOA test done on my oil though. Not a bad idea to know where I am at.

I do understand what you mean. Good old Rotella 15w-40 has been working just fine for me in not only my truck, but every piece of farm equipment I own. Low cost, reliable, and it gets the job done. Who needs "creative" marketing when the product speaks for itself?

I'm sure the moderators are a little furious with me, but let me put my opinion in a more civil tone before I get the boot:
I have no problem with people voicing their success with a product, that is fine with me. But when it gets to where someone is flashing a brand name in my face constantly and treats others like lesser beings because they don't use it...that is where I draw the line. Everyone is entitled to use whatever they want IN whatever they want!

 

[stumpjumper3]

Sorry about my confusion Dave. I misread that the $150 dollars was in the amsoil setup, not the oil sample.

 

[dyoung14]

HMMM lets see 150 dollars for this one stuff thats probly NOT any better than the good ole rotella that i pour in my engine and take it beyond redline daily and some how it contines to hold together, and thats the same rotella that many many diesel owners use and get hundreds of thousands of mile on there engines and the same oil that almost everyone swears by yea i see me paying 1500 dollars for an oil change i think i will continue to pay the already 60 dollars worth to change my oil thats high enough

 

[Dave7.3]

Sorry about my confusion Dave. I misread that the $150 dollars was in the amsoil setup, not the oil sample.

Hey, not a problem. I think I would go crazy if I were charged $150 for a UOA!

As for Dyoung (crazy Dave), I couldn't agree more. Keep pushing the limit! I have to admit, I keep waiting to see a carnage thread from you but just keep pouring on the positive results

 

[dyoung14]

Hey, not a problem. I think I would go crazy if I were charged $150 for a UOA!

As for Dyoung (crazy Dave), I couldn't agree more. Keep pushing the limit! I have to admit, I keep waiting to see a carnage thread from you but just keep pouring on the positive results

I figured it would have let loose by now the main bearings was beyond worn this summer

 

[idiabuse]

Even though checking obvious things like your coolant, oil and air filter would also help you identify problems like you listed above. "Gee, my coolant seems to be going somewhere and my oil level continues to rise." Well now, I don't need an oil analysis to point out the obvious, do I?

As far as 2011 vehicles having 10,000 mile intervals? How about some photos rather than more wives' tales?

I hope you realize that no one ever stops learning throughout their lifetime, seeing as you are so set on thinking you know it all. In fact, with your attitude of treating everyone like half brained idiots, I'm surprised your shop can keep customers. You can try and sell me on your best snake oil all you want, but generations of trucks using conventional oil prove that our "low grade" oil still WORKS. Until I see other compelling, UNBIASED information, I will continue using what works.

And no, some no-name independent lab will not cut it for me. Not for the price of $150 it certainly would not! Besides, if Amsoil is so bulletproof, why isn't everyone using it?

I'm finished battling with an Amsoil dealer. You simply can't muscle people into a product. I actually do plan on switching to synthetic when my engine gets to where it needs a rebuild, but if the rest of the Amsoil community is like you, I will stay FAR away from it!

Thanks! berrate me call me snake oil salesman, call me biased, call an independent lab NO NAME, Calling me a bully, Insult me and my Shop.


So far all you can do is attack the messenger yet have nothing to add as far as the message goes. POSTING RULES MUST NOT APPLY TO YOU....

Just to show the other memebers how little you actually think here is your quote

I actually do plan on switching to synthetic when my engine gets to where it needs a rebuild,

That make perfect sense! lets put in GOOD oil when the engine is tired and worn out

I am finished with you and your insults SIR!

Javier

 

[idiabuse]

WIVES TALE

I'm not sure where you got that idea. I have a 2009 Ford Ranger manual in my lap and it still has the 3month/3000mile change interval. WITH synthetic blend.

In fact, we get a letter in the mail from Ford every three months to remind us that the service for our 2005 Ford Taurus is due. I usually take care of that myself, but they send the notice anyway.

Even the 2010 Dodge diesel my boss owns has a little sticker from Speedy Lube in the corner that goes by 3month/3000 miles...

Ford officially extends oil change interval to 7,500 miles
by Dan Roth (RSS feed) on Mar 22nd 2007 at 10:36AM

Ford has been studying the question of when to suggest oil changes, and they've hit upon 7,500 miles for 2007 and newer cars. Not only are modern oils better, modern engines are also better. You don't have carburetors metering poorly on winter mornings, tolerances are a lot tighter, and operating temperatures are typically a little hotter, helping to cook off the junk that accumulates in the oil. Some manufacturers use a sensor to monitor the health of the oil and light a service lamp when it calculates change is required. Ford contends that its customers prefer a set amount of miles between changes. The automaker also cites the environmental benefits that come from less waste oil, monetary savings, as well as extensive tests as positive aspects of the new recommendation. I'm convinced that the only reason to suggest changing the oil at 3,000 miles in a modern car is to sell more oil. Perhaps an air-cooled Porsche would stress dino juice more, and could sensibly require changes at 3K, but you can stretch to drain intervals that would make your father gasp and clutch his chest by running modern oils in your modern engine. Of course, your driving pattern has a lot to do with it, as well. If you're in town for short hops, you'll require a shorter drain interval than the guy running Mobil 1 for his highway commute and changing the oil at 25 kilomile intervals (raising my hand).

2011 Model Year Brings New Oils, Longer Change Intervals


October 20th, 2010 The first time you take your new car in for an oil change, beware: Many 2011 models don't use the same oil as the equivalent 2010 models--even if they look virtually identical otherwise. And accidentally refilling with another oil that costs less could end up costing you big; using a different oil could void your warranty. It's no doubt something that every mechanic is aware of, but if yours isn't used to working on newer cars, it might pay to provide a reminder. According to Automotive News, all 2011 General Motors vehicles are being filled with next-generation motor oils that promises both higher fuel-efficiency and lower wear. The new oils—called GF-5, SN, or Dexos1—are being phased in this month and officially replace GF-4 and SM motor oils. The new oils will allow longer oil-change intervals as well, thanks to engineering changes that have been made together with the new standard—which has been in the works since 2006—including larger oil pans, more aluminum in engines, and oil-life-monitoring systems, which calculate intervals with data from driving style and other conditions. Ford is now specifying oil-change intervals of up to 10,000 miles with the new oil, while GM is relying entirely on driving conditions and its oil-monitor system. Dexos1 is a proprietary GM oil that's tested to slightly different standards, though some oils already on the market—Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker State Ultimate Durability synthetics are two of them—fully comply with each of these standards. GF-5 is the designation used by the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC), while SN is the latest in a long list of comparably-named designations from the American Petroleum Institute (API). According to the API, all oils with the SN designation also meet GF-5 standards. These newer oils can be used in older vehicles, though they're likely to be a bit more expensive at first. Look to still see plenty of SM oils on the shelf for a while, too. One sign of an SN oil is that most will likely carry a "resource conserving" stamp in packaging. Here are the API designations you're likely to find in shops, as well as a few you might find in a dusty corner: SM – Up until this month, the latest standard; better oxidation and deposit resistance; wear protection; and low-temp performance than the oils it replaced SL – For 2004 and older automotive engines SJ – For 2001 and older automotive engines SH, SG, and SF – Each of these is considered obsolete [Automotive News; API]


2010 Cadillac CTS-V
Enlarge PhotoThe first time you take your new car in for an oil change, beware: Many 2011 models don't use the same oil as the equivalent 2010 models--even if they look virtually identical otherwise.

And accidentally refilling with another oil that costs less could end up costing you big; using a different oil could void your warranty. It's no doubt something that every mechanic is aware of, but if yours isn't used to working on newer cars, it might pay to provide a reminder.

According to Automotive News, all 2011 General Motors vehicles are being filled with next-generation motor oils that promises both higher fuel-efficiency and lower wear. The new oils—called GF-5, SN, or Dexos1—are being phased in this month and officially replace GF-4 and SM motor oils.

The new oils will allow longer oil-change intervals as well, thanks to engineering changes that have been made together with the new standard—which has been in the works since 2006—including larger oil pans, more aluminum in engines, and oil-life-monitoring systems, which calculate intervals with data from driving style and other conditions.

Ford is now specifying oil-change intervals of up to 10,000 miles with the new oil, while GM is relying entirely on driving conditions and its oil-monitor system.



Dexos1 is a proprietary GM oil that's tested to slightly different standards, though some oils already on the market—Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker State Ultimate Durability synthetics are two of them—fully comply with each of these standards.

GF-5 is the designation used by the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC), while SN is the latest in a long list of comparably-named designations from the American Petroleum Institute (API). According to the API, all oils with the SN designation also meet GF-5 standards.

These newer oils can be used in older vehicles, though they're likely to be a bit more expensive at first.
Look to still see plenty of SM oils on the shelf for a while, too. One sign of an SN oil is that most will likely carry a "resource conserving" stamp in packaging.

Here are the API designations you're likely to find in shops, as well as a few you might find in a dusty corner:

SM – Up until this month, the latest standard; better oxidation and deposit resistance; wear protection; and low-temp performance than the oils it replaced
SL – For 2004 and older automotive engines
SJ – For 2001 and older automotive engines
SH, SG, and SF – Each of these is considered obsolete

 

[Dave7.3]

Thanks! berrate me call me snake oil salesman, call me biased, call an independent lab NO NAME, Calling me a bully, Insult me and my Shop.


So far all you can do is attack the messenger yet have nothing to add as far as the message goes. POSTING RULES MUST NOT APPLY TO YOU....

Just to show the other memebers how little you actually think here is your quote



That make perfect sense! lets put in GOOD oil when the engine is tired and worn out

I am finished with you and your insults SIR!

Javier

You should be accustom to that reaction by now when you try and shove your Amsoil prophecy down someone's throat. I feel I have contributed a fair counter argument to you SIR. You have presented your statements about extended oil drain intervals and I have provided ACTUAL documentation that says otherwise. ALSO note that I acknowledged in a previous post that I was indeed defying posting rules regarding my treatment of you (sorry mods).

I apologize, I thought you would have enough sense to see what I meant in that phrase (others did). Of course you wouldn't put synthetic into a tired engine...but AFTER the rebuild, why not give it a try? (I will edit my original post to reflect this since you missed it.)

Spare me the auto blogger post. I want to see WORD FOR WORD from the horse's mouth about your elaboration on extended oil intervals. Present me a press release from Ford.
EDIT: Another thought that came to mind the further that I browsed that blogger post...those statements were made March 22, 2007...yet I linked a 2007 Model year manual that has the same listings for intervals as my 2009 Ranger manual? Something isn't adding up here...

I'm usually not one to give insults, but when someone such as yourself continually insults myself and others on this board. You had better put on a hard hat.

EDIT: I also noticed you took no time to confront the many other arguments and/or questions of your ideals in this thread...interesting.

Once again to reiterate (since you don't seem to take the time to read entire posts, since you feel it must be beneath you):

I'm sure the moderators are a little furious with me, but let me put my opinion in a more civil tone before I get the boot:
I have no problem with people voicing their success with a product, that is fine with me. But when it gets to where someone is flashing a brand name in my face constantly and treats others like lesser beings because they don't use it...that is where I draw the line. Everyone is entitled to use whatever they want IN whatever they want!

GOOD DAY SIR.

 

[alienturtle]

here we go again..didnt we already have one of these threads?

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43388

 

[Dave7.3]

here we go again..didnt we already have one of these threads?

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43388

I wondered why this all sounded so familiar. The attitude between the threads is the same as well.

 

[alienturtle]

I wondered why this all sounded so familiar.

 

[jhnlennon]

Ive seen this argument SOOOOOO many times in the snowmobile world its unreal. Ams vrs. klotz blah blah blah. Ive seen so many sled engines blown up running ams its unreal, and if you talk to the actual people that are repairing these machines VERY FEW of them will actually recommend ams. Its only the dealers that sell it and the people who are sponsored by them that swear by it.

Run whatever is cheapest, and meets manufracturers recommendations. High mileage engines prove this over and over again, expensive oil doesnt mean your engine will run any better or last any longer.