starter system issues

[Austin86250]

well got in my truck today try and start it cranked just fine for 3 seconds and just quit not even a click
tried jumping the solenoid on the fender still nothing
verified tight connections on starter solenoid and battery's
12.8 at the batterys and 12.8 at the starter
thought it was the starter pulled it took it to auto zone and they said "passed with flying colors"
now im thinking its the solenoid
any ideas? fusible link? fuse? relay? im not sure
any input or ideas would be appreciated
thanks for listening

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

well got in my truck today try and start it cranked just fine for 3 seconds and just quit not even a click
tried jumping the solenoid on the fender still nothing
verified tight connections on starter solenoid and battery's
12.8 at the batterys and 12.8 at the starter
thought it was the starter pulled it took it to auto zone and they said "passed with flying colors"
now im thinking its the solenoid
any ideas? fusible link? fuse? relay? im not sure
any input or ideas would be appreciated
thanks for listening

If you don't get a click on the fender solenoid when jumping it that would be the failure right there.
If it doesn't click then it's not connecting the circuit, it's just a paper weight.

 

[Clb]

Allways






Allways check the grounds FIRST

 

[Austin86250]

Allways






Allways check the grounds FIRST

so when i checked the starter for 12 volts i used the negative side of the starter for ground does that verify ground?

 

[TNBrett]

so when i checked the starter for 12 volts i used the negative side of the starter for ground does that verify ground?

If you mean the metal body of the starter yes. That verifies that the starter has a ground. You could still have a ground issue at the starter relay. That’s the solenoid relay mounted on the passenger side fender. It’s grounded through the metal mounting tabs. A loose or corroded connection there would keep it from closing the circuit when you turn the key.

 

[TNBrett]

I reread your original post. When you jumped the starter relay on the fender, do you mean between the two big terminals? Try jumping directly from the positive battery post to the large terminal on the starter relay that has only one wire connected. That will feed 12v to the solenoid on the starter, and it should turn over. If it doesn’t, the issue is the wire between the relay at the fender and the solenoid at the starter. If it does, move the jumper to the other large terminal on the starter relay, and try it with the key. If it works, the issue is the cable between the battery and the relay. If it doesn’t we’ll try some other tests.

 

[Big Bart]

Some other thoughts -

1) As TNBrett suggests let us know how you tested the the solenoid on the fender. It should click if you add 12+ to the correct small terminal. (Some after market solenoids have two small terminals.) If not clicking, it is not grounding to the the fender well or is bad. Even if it clicks the contacts inside can be damaged and not conducting enough power to energize the secondary soleniod on the starter. My last one fried out during a compression test I was running at the time. Clicked but did not work. But if you jumped the large posts with a screw driver or jumper cable then -
a) TNBrett is correct and next step is to check the two big posts for corrosion or the wire between the two solenoids. The one on the fender well to the one on the starter.
b) It could be when you removed the starter that you hap hazzardly fixed a issue like the ground to the engine block or corrosion on the starter electrical connections. Or a brush on the starter was dirty or stuck retracted and jiggling and jarring it has freed it up.
c) Also know starter tests are very basic and do not always give you a good picture. The test is a functional test plus amp draw without a load on the starter. So it can show it physically works and does not have excessive amp draw but a week from now does the same thing or just stops working. But it is working per the test.
2) Keep in mind many of us now have 30 year old ignition switches and mechanics from the key cylinder to them. My truck has worn ignition switch or mechanicals. Last year my starter turned when I turned the key. Now my truck 8 out of 10 times does not start unless I turn the key as far as possible. I will try a new ignition switch first due to ease of replacement but it may be the mechanicals that move the switch. So if you find it is not your solenoid keep your ignition switch in mind. Wiggle or giggle it next time and see if you can start.
3) Keep in mind your truck also has a safety switch to prevent starting in gear. For sticks a clutch safety and for auto’s like mine a P or N safety switch. That too can prevent the starter solenoid on the fender from getting 12+ to activate.
4) Our battery cables are getting old and like mine many have started to crack leaving the cables to corrode. If marginal you may want to replace, Rock Auto has them. Lastly clean your battery cable connectors and I highly suggest undoing and cleaning the ground at the engine block just to eliminate that as a issue. Getting a poor ground that tests out on a multimeter but due to voltage drop fails under load.

Since the solenoid on the fender is cheap I would replace it since the starter is testing fine. If your starter is very old maybe you toss a new or rebuilt in as they are a bit of a PITA to replace from what members here say. At a minimum perhaps replace the soleniod on the starter too. But with a tested starter, new solenoid, a tested wire between solenoids you take a lot of the guess work out if the starter fails to start again.

 

[Austin86250]

Some other thoughts -

1) As TNBrett suggests let us know how you tested the the solenoid on the fender. It should click if you add 12+ to the correct small terminal. (Some after market solenoids have two small terminals.) If not clicking, it is not grounding to the the fender well or is bad. Even if it clicks the contacts inside can be damaged and not conducting enough power to energize the secondary soleniod on the starter. My last one fried out during a compression test I was running at the time. Clicked but did not work. But if you jumped the large posts with a screw driver or jumper cable then -
a) TNBrett is correct and next step is to check the two big posts for corrosion or the wire between the two solenoids. The one on the fender well to the one on the starter.
b) It could be when you removed the starter that you hap hazzardly fixed a issue like the ground to the engine block or corrosion on the starter electrical connections. Or a brush on the starter was dirty or stuck retracted and jiggling and jarring it has freed it up.
c) Also know starter tests are very basic and do not always give you a good picture. The test is a functional test plus amp draw without a load on the starter. So it can show it physical works and does not have excessive amp draw but a week from now does the same thing or just stops working. But it is working per the test.
2) Keep in mind many of us now have 30 year old ignition switches and mechanics from the key cylinder to them. My truck has worn ignition switch or mechanicals. Last year my starter turnes when I turned the key. Now my truck 8 out of 10 times does not start unless I turn the key as far as possible. I will try a new ignition switch first due to ease of replacement but it may be the mechanicals that move the switch. So if you find it is not your solenoid keep your ignition switch in mind. Wiggle or giggle it next time and see if you can start.
3) Keep in mind your truck also has a safety switch to prevent starting in gear. For sticks a clutch safety and for auto’s like mine a P or N safety switch. That too can prevent the starter solenoid on the fender from getting 12+ to activate.
4) Our battery cables are getting old and like mine many have started to crack leaving the cables to corrode. If marginal you may want to replace, Rock Auto has them. Lastly clean your battery cable connectors and I highly suggest undoing and cleaning the ground at the engine block just to eliminate that as a issue. Getting a poor ground that tests out on a multimeter but due to voltage drop fails under load.

Since the solenoid on the fender is cheap I would replace it since the starter is testing fine. If your starter is very old maybe you toss a new or rebuilt in as they are a bit of a PITA to replace from what members here say. At a minimum perhaps replace the soleniod on the starter too. But with a tested starter, new solenoid, a tested wire between solenoids you take a lot of the guess work out if the starter fails to start again.

i successfully cranked my solenoid the same way i tried checking it

 

[Big Bart]

So how did you go about the solenoid test? Did not see you describe how you did it above? Did you jump small post with +12v, bridge the two large posts with something metal like a screw driver, use a jumper cable from positive of the battery to the big post going to the starter relay, or …?

To your other questions
1) The wire from the ignition switch to small post on the solenoid on fender is fused.
2) Battery cables from battery to starter and block ground not fused.
3) Battery connection to fender well solenoid not fused. Feeds power your fuse box too.
4) Relay - The solenoid on the fender is actually just acting like a giant starter relay. But I do not recall any other relay in the starter system.
5) Fusible links - I can only think of two on the vehicle but none for the starter. 1) The alt charge wire to the fender starter solenoid. (Hooks there and uses the line from there to the batteries to charge them.) 2) From the battery to the glow plug solenoid.

 

[Austin86250]

So how did you go about the solenoid test? Did not see you describe how you did it above? Did you jump small post with +12v, bridge the two large posts with something metal like a screw driver, use a jumper cable from positive of the battery to the big post going to the starter relay, or …?

To your other questions
1) The wire from the ignition switch to small post on the solenoid on fender is fused.
2) Battery cables from battery to starter and block ground not fused.
3) Battery connection to fender well solenoid not fused. Feeds power your fuse box too.
4) Relay - The solenoid on the fender is actually just acting like a giant starter relay. But I do not recall any other relay in the starter system.
5) Fusible links - I can only think of two on the vehicle but none for the starter. 1) The alt charge wire to the fender starter solenoid. (Hooks there and uses the line from there to the batteries to charge them.) 2) From the battery to the glow plug solenoid.

i used a wrench to jump the 2 big posts, its worked before now when i do that i get nothing
i bought a new silinoid and going to try that today

 

[Big Bart]

Let us know how that works out. Try to post some pic’s too!

Generally speaking connecting the two big posts and a no start condition is -
1) The one big post is not getting power due to a bad connection to the battery. Or battery’s are low/dead, but you have 12.8 volts so not due to dead or low batteries.
2) The wire from the big other post on the fender solenoid to the starter solenoid is loose, corroded, or bad.
3) The negative battery cable/block ground is marginal or bad.
4) The positive battery cable to the starter is loose, corroded, or bad.
5) Starter or starter solenoid is flaky or bad.

 

[Austin86250]

Let us know how that works out. Try to post some pic’s too!

Generally speaking connecting the two big posts and a no start condition is -
1) The one big post is not getting power due to a bad connection to the battery. Or battery’s are low/dead, but you have 12.8 volts so not due to dead or low batteries.
2) The wire from the big other post on the fender solenoid to the starter solenoid is loose, corroded, or bad.
3) The negative battery cable/block ground is marginal or bad.
4) The positive battery cable to the starter is loose, corroded, or bad.
5) Starter or starter solenoid is flaky or bad.

ill try and get some pictures, i put a new silioid in i haven't been able to test it as my ignition broke every position acts like the off position any idea on what broke there?

 

[Big Bart]

Some thoughts.

Check first to see if you are getting +12v power to the one large post on your new starter solenoid On the fender well. It should be getting +12v power from your batteries. Then check your ignition switch wiring connector. Your ignition switch is at the base of the steering column by the brake pedal. One wire should have +12v.

1) No power -
a) Your wire to you batteries may be bad.
b) You may have created/had a wiring issue when you replaced the soleniod. Perhaps you have left a wire off the new solenoid that powers your cab. Or something is corroded and not conducting electricity.
c) Or something grounded out and blew the fuse that supplies power to the ignition switch.

2) Yes power - Perhaps your ignition switch just broke at the same time. It’s the slide switch at the base of the steering column by the brake pedal. Most parts stores can get them next day if not in stock. Fairly straight forward to replace.

 

[Austin86250]

turns out the driver side secondary battery was completely bad every time i got it checked they just check the passenger side
so always have both of them individually checked

 

[Big Bart]

turns out the driver side secondary battery was completely bad every time i got it checked they just check the passenger side
so always have both of them individually checked

Austin,

1) It is odd that you would have 12.8 v at the solenoid and starter with a bad battery.
2) Correct battery testers can only test one battery at a time. That means you have to unhook each battery and test solo.
3) Hopefully 2 new batteries will have you back on the road.