Tow Truck PTOs (hydraulic over electric?)

Discussion in 'Towing and Hauling' started by TooManyTrucks!, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. TooManyTrucks!

    TooManyTrucks! Registered User

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    I got a tow truck project, perhaps the correct term would be basket case really. It is a 1986 F350 with an 18ft Chevron Aluminum Bed. I bought the truck off of eBAY last summer with a cracked frame, up by the power steering pump. The dude sold it a few times on the site and every time before, somebody would drive/bus/train/plane up and expect to drive it back. It wasn't roadworthy without the frame being fixed, so he refunded the money and sold it again. I was the closest person being within 75 miles that bought it, people came before from New Orleans and further out to get it.

    So the dude that I bought it from, took some type of saw and cut the cab 6 inches above the bottom of the windshield and the rest of the cab off, so no one would attempt to drive it back. So Yes, it has no roof, back of cab, doors, etc... The front fenders are gone and all I have is the hood over the 6.9L IDI. The truck is a 4 speed manual still and since so much is missing, my friend who towed it home said, why not make it 4WD. So a project began....

    I have spare motors for it (just in case), I have a transfer case, Front axle off of a 91F250, and the rear too. I also have a bunch of E4ODs for it. I have a few spare cabs as well in the 92-97 style too!

    My question is if the original bed ran off the 4 speed with the PTO and I make it automatic, do I need a special E4OD case or is there something after market like an electric over hydraulic set up that people mention yet I can never find?

    I was planning on going through the axle, transfer case, and tranny anyway before putting it together. So do I need an electric over hydraulic set up, or some special PTO case, or what for it?

    Yes the bed controls worked fine before the massacre by the previous owner.
     
  2. towcat

    towcat Administrator Staff Member

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    welcome to the site;Sweet
    If you're going to auto, I'd suggest googling up "deweeze mfg." they make a belt driven PTO pump kit. even for our antique motors. min spec for the pump should be 11gpm or you will have a very slow system. as far as the butchered valve assy, post a pic of what's left and I can tell you if yours is repairable or time for a new assy.
     
  3. 94f450sd

    94f450sd Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    leave it standard with tranny driven pto!those belt drive things are garbage!!i run a belt drive on my carrier and it sucks.i can pee faster than my bed moves at 2800 rpm.im getting ready to swap mine to the tranny driven setup so my whole bracket setup may be for sale with pump and all.
     
  4. Papabear

    Papabear Papabear

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    If you convert it to 4WD with an E4OD there is a transfer cas available that also has a provision for a PTO if you want to go this route let me know and i will dig up the info
     
  5. TooManyTrucks!

    TooManyTrucks! Registered User

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    I was going convert it to E40D. I have a few spares lying around. I was going to have it rebuild by a local tranny repairer. Basically the labor is $400 to $500 bucks plus all the parts & kits I supply. Doesn't the tranny case have a PTO outlet on some? Do I need a new case and throw all the gutty works from the normal e40d in it?

    The truck is an original four speed. It seems nobody cares for the four speeds anyhow.
     
  6. PackRat

    PackRat Buzzard Pilot

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    Trust me, a 12 volt pump will not support enough volume to run the winch. I've got that very pump on my '49, and The Crossbreed. It would probably be very slow, on the slide cylinder. Both of mine were from the old Type 2, or 'top mount' DewEze units.
    There is nothing wrong with a belt drive pump. as long as you have one of the correct volume(flow rate). The upside is being able to 'hot shift' the pump, from anywhere you decide to install the clutch switch. The down side is running 2 sizable hydraulic lines up around the engine, exhaust, etc.
    A PTO pump on the t-case is a PITA, as you have to put the t-case in neutral, and tranny in gear. The problem results, when you put the tranny in neutral, and attempt to grind the t-case back in to gear. Also, you cannot move the truck, without re-engaging the t-case.
    IMHO, every 6.9 I've every been around, with a slushbox, is a gutless wonder.(Stay with me, I'm really not trying to pick a fight, here.) A manual tranny has a lot less parasitic load.

    The way I figure it, the best case scenerio, is a belt drive pump, with a 5, or 6, speed manual. 2nd would be a manual, with a pto. Last place, would be a dead heat, between a slushbox, with a t-case pto pump, or a 12 volt pump.
     
  7. 94f450sd

    94f450sd Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    trust me you do not want a belt driven pump!ive hated mine since the day i bought the truck 6 years ago.cant wait till the pto and pump are on the tranny so i can junk that mess thats hangin off the front of my motor.
     
  8. towcat

    towcat Administrator Staff Member

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    rich-
    your pump GPM is not high enough. you need a bigger pump.
     
  9. TooManyTrucks!

    TooManyTrucks! Registered User

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    What prices do they start at for the good size?
     
  10. 94f450sd

    94f450sd Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    im running a the biggest pump that will fit in it.if i go any bigger im gonna have to remove my passengers battery and the heater/ac box.but that problem will be solved,ive got a nasty setup going on the tranny:angel: :D
     
  11. towcat

    towcat Administrator Staff Member

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    here's the kit you're looking for.
    http://www.deweze.com/deweze/OEM/Kit Drawings/700035D.pdf
    check out the charts for the pump GPM
    http://www.deweze.com/deweze/OEM/OEM.html
    the pump GPMs are the same as if you are using a trans mounted PTO.
    my installs use the hoses as little as possible on the feed side. from the service body to the front. I pipe as much as I can and use hyd hose for the last three feet or so. the pressure line. is all rubber though....well, whatever that synthetic rubber hyd hose is.
     
  12. PackRat

    PackRat Buzzard Pilot

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    Our 96 F350 twin-line has a belt drive pump. The original pump worked great. The 'direct replacement' is less gpm. The hydraulics work fine, albeit a little slow. The winches are slow, unless you spool it up, then you have to be careful, or it will overheat the oil. I like to set up for proper operation at 1000-1250 engine RPM.

    The whole key to making any system work correctly is matching pump with the system pressure/flow requirements.

    DewEze is definitely a good place to start. They have setups for almost everything. Don't plan on stealing it, though.
     
  13. Papabear

    Papabear Papabear

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    you could always try to find a dropbox and than run the hydraulic pump directly off the driveline but if you decided to do that i would use a manual transmission and regardless of your setup i would add a oil cooler on the reurn side of your circuit to keep hydraulic temps optimal
     

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