Replacing head gaskets

Worstenemy453

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Only if you want to destroy your block surfaces! :mad:

The Super Scraper is the only way to go. Safe and efficient ;Sweet

We have never destroyed a block surface yet, i think we've done 8 6.0's in our new shop plus another 6 before we opened the shop in the last few months. The green will not destroy your block surface, it wont even scratch it. You might be thinking of something different than i am.

These are the exact ones we use, without fail or damage. http://3m.hillas.com/pc-14282-862-3...stle-disc-pn-07526-3-in-x-58-tapered-crs.aspx
 
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RoyBoy

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Yes those are the ones. I've heard of other shops where using those (or any air tool) on a block or head surface is a firing offense. The problem is that they still have abrasive in them. Green is the coarsest, 50 grit :eek: I am a full time diesel tech as well. Guess we all have different opinions, it's just that I'm right and you're wrong :rotflmao
 

Worstenemy453

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Yes those are the ones. I've heard of other shops where using those (or any air tool) on a block or head surface is a firing offense. The problem is that they still have abrasive in them. Green is the coarsest, 50 grit :eek: I am a full time diesel tech as well. Guess we all have different opinions, it's just that I'm right and you're wrong :rotflmao

I guess we will just have to keep using them without worries and keep pushing trucks out with no failures and no block damage. ;Sweet More than 1 way to skin a cat i suppose.

Edit: Your opinion must be a wisconsin thing. = D
 

RoyBoy

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Not to beat a dead horse, but here is a bulletin, I believe it was from GM, but all the same. I believe AERA also has information on the same subject.
<B>Gasket Surfaces - Use of Surface Conditioning Discs

File In Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System

Bulletin No.: 00-06-01-012

Date: May, 2000

INFORMATION

Subject:
Use of "Surface Conditioning Disks"

Models:
2000 and Prior Passenger Cars and Trucks</B>

This bulletin is being revised to change the model years and the status of molded bristle disks. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 87-61-24 (Section 6 - Engine).

<B>The Use of "Surface Conditioning Disks"</B>

When cleaning engine gasket sealing surfaces, and/or cleaning parts from an engine which are to be reused; surface conditioning disks (typically constructed of woven fiber or molded bristles) which contain abrasives, such as a high amount of Aluminum Oxide, are NOT recommended.

The use of such surface conditioning discs dislodges Aluminum Oxide (from the disk) and metal particles, which can lead to premature engine bearing failure. The presence of Aluminum Oxide in engine oil has been shown to cause premature engine bearing failure. In some cases, this failure occurs in as little as 1,000 miles (2,200 km) or less after the repair has been made.

Surface conditioning discs may grind the component material and imbed it into the disc. This can result when more aggressive grinding of the gasket surface takes place.

Notice: Do not use abrasive pad/bristle devices to clean the gasket surfaces of engine components. Abrasive pads should not be used for the following reasons:

<LI>Abrasive pads will produce fine grit that the oil filter will not be able to remove from the oil. THIS GRIT IS ABRASIVE AND HAS BEEN KNOWN TO CAUSE INTERNAL ENGINE DAMAGE. Abrasive pads can easily remove enough material to round cylinder head surfaces. This has been known to affect the gasket's ability to seal, especially in the narrow seal areas between the combustion chambers and coolant jackets.

<LI>Abrasive pads can also remove enough metal to affect cylinder head, block, oil pan rail, and intake manifold runner flatness, which can cause coolant and oil leaks. It takes about 15 seconds to remove 0.203 mm (0.008 in) of metal with an abrasive pad.


<B>Recommended Cleaning Procedure</B>

General Motors recommends the use of a razor blade or plastic gasket scraper to clean the gasket surface on engine components that are to be reused. When cleaning gasket surfaces, please note the following:

<LI>When using a razor blade type gasket scraper, use a new razor blade for each cylinder head and corresponding block surface. Hold the blade as parallel to the gasket surface as possible. This will ensure that the razor blade does not gouge or scratch the gasket surfaces.

<LI>Do not gouge or scrape the combustion chamber surfaces.

<LI>Do not gouge or scratch any engine-sealing surface during the cleaning process.

Important: The appearance of the gasket surface is not critical - the feel is. There will be indentations from the gasket left in the cylinder head after all the gasket material is removed. The new gasket will fill these small indentations when it is installed
 

NJKen

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Bullet Proofs air to oil cooler kit is a complete rip off. Leave the system the way it is, put a new oil cooler kit in it, a coolant filter and get rid of the ****** ford coolant. Less than half the cost of BPD's stuff.

I dont see how getting rid of a horribly designed part and replacing it with one that deletes it is a total rip off. Do you have any information to back this? Maybe you just dont like the price and thats OK. Dont buy one. If you have ever seen the parts from BPD you can see there was a substantial amount of R&D that went into it. As well as a substantial amount of custom machine work. Thats gonna cost ya
Im not trying to be confrontational but I just dont think that the International engineer who designed the factory oil cooler really thought it out too well. I am more pissed at that individual. I have had IDI's and 7.3powerstrokes for a very long time and a lot of miles and never had one eat an oil cooler yet. Leak yes but totally blow out... no.

BTW, the roloc pads and bristle disks are great. If you know how to use them you will never hurt a block. When you dont know what youre doing you can and will completely screw up a good part.
Ken
 

Brimmstone

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I use sinister kits for everyone I do and I have done well over 100 now. I won't even bring a Roloc disk near one of these engines. The heads and block are machined to a certain finish and if it's too coarse they won't seal properly. As to milling the heads I have only seen one that warped the head. Only things I use to clean the heads and block with are razor blades and brake clean.

I wouldn't use a ford oem gasket on a bet. Every one I do gets a set of studs and the Black Onyx headgaskets from MKM. I have had zero failures doing it this way. Another local shop did one using the green Roloc finger discs and it started leaking again 4 months later. They ended up paying for another engine due to the finish being trashed.

As to the oil cooler issues while BP makes a nice oil cooler kit I won't be using it unless someone makes me. The sinister basic kit does everything just fine if the headgaskets are ok.
 

Worstenemy453

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I dont see how getting rid of a horribly designed part and replacing it with one that deletes it is a total rip off. Do you have any information to back this? Maybe you just dont like the price and thats OK. Dont buy one. If you have ever seen the parts from BPD you can see there was a substantial amount of R&D that went into it. As well as a substantial amount of custom machine work. Thats gonna cost ya
Im not trying to be confrontational but I just dont think that the International engineer who designed the factory oil cooler really thought it out too well. I am more pissed at that individual. I have had IDI's and 7.3powerstrokes for a very long time and a lot of miles and never had one eat an oil cooler yet. Leak yes but totally blow out... no.

BTW, the roloc pads and bristle disks are great. If you know how to use them you will never hurt a block. When you dont know what youre doing you can and will completely screw up a good part.
Ken

Its a rip-off in the sense of its not needed at all, the factory oil cooler, while a ****** design will work just fine with the addition of the coolant filter, most issues from oil cooler failure derive from silica from the coolant building up in the cooler, plugging it/blowing it resulting in said failure. BPD's kit is a wonderfully fabricated and put together kit but its simply not need what so ever.

I use sinister kits for everyone I do and I have done well over 100 now. I won't even bring a Roloc disk near one of these engines. The heads and block are machined to a certain finish and if it's too coarse they won't seal properly. As to milling the heads I have only seen one that warped the head. Only things I use to clean the heads and block with are razor blades and brake clean.

I wouldn't use a ford oem gasket on a bet. Every one I do gets a set of studs and the Black Onyx headgaskets from MKM. I have had zero failures doing it this way. Another local shop did one using the green Roloc finger discs and it started leaking again 4 months later. They ended up paying for another engine due to the finish being trashed.

As to the oil cooler issues while BP makes a nice oil cooler kit I won't be using it unless someone makes me. The sinister basic kit does everything just fine if the headgaskets are ok.

The sinister gaskets are too thin, even before they are compressed. We have fixed 3 trucks now with HG failure after black onyx usage. And every single truck we have done has had heads warped at least .005 up to .009. If your guys dont run tunes like ours do then your Black Onyx gaskets might hold up for a little while. But none of our trucks have experienced failures with studs and OEM gaskets on Race/xtreme street tunes for daily driving. These trucks get beat on and abused and the OEM gaskets hold it just fine.
 

94f450sd

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well anyways.i have seen a shop replace the heads on a 6.0 without pulling the cab.they removed the heater/ac box and the brake master/booster.

just did glow plugs on one a couple weeks ago.total nightmare and my hands will never touch another of these junks again.:puke::puke:-cuss-cuss
 

Black dawg

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What kind of time do you guys get into one of those jobs, what does the dealership charge for time? Not many 6.0 here, people still running the 7.3
 

snicklas

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I have not had to have this done.... but what I have read here and next door at our sister site, www.superdutydiesel.com is that out of warranty head gaskets are the dealer are $2500-3000 for head gaskets.

I know on my Dad's truck, a 97 F-250 5.4 V-8 4x4 that spit a plug (I know, it is not a 6.0.... but similar work... To remove and replace the passenger side head, and this included a replacement head was $3300. On his, like they do on they do on these trucks, the removed the cab/clip as a unit, and removed and replaced the head. On the post 97 trucks LD and SD the dealer removes the cab and clip because it is quicker and easier than pulling the engine. I know that reading guys that have done it themselves, it is about 50/50 of guys that pull the engine, and the others move/remove stuff in he engine bay to do the work. If they do the work inframe they have to, on the rear most bolts place them in the head, but us a clip or rubber band to hold the bolt up so they can maneuver the head in, since there is not enough room the drop the bolts in with the head in place. Also.... I believe studs inframe are not possible without lifting the cab or removing the engine. There is not enough room the drop the head down over the studs...
 

Diesel_brad

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You can do head gaskets in the truck. Like stated above, remove the heater box. then undo the trans mount and jack the trans right INTO the truck floor. Then the bolts can be pulled and replaced with studs. I have heard more than one failure with the black onyx gaskets. the FORD ones have held will into the 60psi with studs. that is enough proof for me
 

Worstenemy453

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For a full 6.0l headgasket job including oil cooler and egr delete and all my shop charges a flat $1800 labor. Usually takes about a week, part of that is head milling down time.

We have done them in truck and let the heater box and everything intact. Its definitely a chore.
 

Ford428CJ

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I use sinister kits for everyone I do and I have done well over 100 now. I won't even bring a Roloc disk near one of these engines. The heads and block are machined to a certain finish and if it's too coarse they won't seal properly. As to milling the heads I have only seen one that warped the head. Only things I use to clean the heads and block with are razor blades and brake clean.

I wouldn't use a ford oem gasket on a bet. Every one I do gets a set of studs and the Black Onyx headgaskets from MKM. I have had zero failures doing it this way. Another local shop did one using the green Roloc finger discs and it started leaking again 4 months later. They ended up paying for another engine due to the finish being trashed..

I totally agree with that statement 100%.

You might want to take it to a very reputable machine shop and have the heads resurfaced. The 6.0's are very tight on there clearances when compared to a 7.3 power stroke. Why take a chance.....
 

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