Ford 2000 Windstar stalling.

[OLDBULL8]

Well, she's all regasketed and ready to back together. All nice new Fel-Pro gaskets. 3rd pic shows the Cyl. intake gasket, nice heavy steel center, original was plastic.
Wish I would have known about the smoke test, to find vacuum leaks.

The Green thing with the bolt thru it, I think is what they are calling the o'rings, there is eight of them and they hold the 1st plastic intake down to the lower intakes. They tighten down until the small flange at the bottom seats, then torque to 14 oz in.

If this isn't a ****** up engine, how in the hell they ever designed it I'll never know. Notice the thing in the center, have no idea what it does.

 

[79jasper]

I bet it's a balance shaft.

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[OLDBULL8]

I bet it's a balance shaft.

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Must have missed the definition in the Haynes book, yup, it's a cam balance shaft. Kinda thought it might be that. That must be the rattle I hear coming from the upper intake cover. There appears there is two oil spouts below it, must splash oil to the lifters and lift rods.

Now that it's all back together, it starts and runs just fine until it gets up to temp (160* to 190*), then it will slowly start to loose power down to 500 RPM then stalls out.

Thought I'd found the problem, see intake gasket pic's. Old gasket, a piece of gasket is missing next to coolant port, new Fel-Pro gasket is much better design.

Strange thing is, it seems to have to much vacuum. If i disconnect the small vacuum hose to the fuel regulator, it will run longer. The vacuum is 18" HG with that disconnected. It still maintains 35-40 lbs fuel PSI. Full vacuum is 24" Hg. at idle.

Could this be a partially plugged Catalytic converter?

When first started cold, when I gun it up to 3000 RPM, I get a shot of water (not coolant) and black carbon out the exhaust, revving up again, I don't get any more until the next cold start.

Gonna take a compression test today. Hopefully it isn't head gaskets. That's gonna be fun, how the hell do ya get to the back cylinders?
Changed the back spark plugs, but that was a year ago.

 

[79jasper]

Is there a pre-cat o2 sensor easily accessible?
Can take a pressure reading.

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[subway]

You could take a pressur reading at the dpfe sensor but I doubt it is a clogged cat. If it was it would severely cut down the air pumping efficiency of the engine. If anything it should be a lower vacuum. Plus it should do it all the time, not just after it warms up.

Have you checked the coil pack? I have had them go bad were the engine looses power from a weak spark. It would jive more with the engine loosing power when it gets hot. Spark plugs can do that to.

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[79jasper]

That's the way I understood clogged cats, you will have less vacuum.
I've seen cracked coils do that. Once they heat up, the crack opens up.

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[OLDBULL8]

New spark plugs less than a year ago. Gap set at .054 according to the Haynes book.

Haynes book gives a vacuum of 17" to 22" Hg. They also give 7 vacuum indications for problems. A steady vacuum is a healthy engine, which what it has. What baffles me, is it will run for about 4 - 5 minutes with the vac hose to the fuel regulator before it starts to shut down. There is a vacuum regulator mounted on the firewall with a port to take vac readings.

This exhaust has 4 - 02 sensors on it. The main one is before any Cat and is a heated one, it don't come into play until the exhaust reaches 600 degrees, it starts to regulate the fuel at that temp, so maybe it's cutting off too much fuel, the PCM regulates the injector pulse width at that temp, before that it's a closed loop for fueling.

There a little expensive $54, but I'm going to change it.

I'll replace that 02 sensor, if that don't help. I'll pull the spark plug module and check it for cracks.

Thanks for the help so far.

This damn Haynes manual is so spread out, where the info should be all together, it's not.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Finely got around to hooking up my AE scanner instead of the Actron 9580 scanner.
Measurements taken at idle about 700 RPM.

IAC, operating like it should, voltage varies from .50 to .53.
Vacuum holds steady at 18" Hg., raises to 21" Hg with a quick snap of the throttle, then reduces to 15" Hg, then settles at 18" HG again.
PCM controlled fuel pulse width remains steady and equal to both banks.
Fuel rail pressure remains for 5 minutes after a Stall. Didn't measure it, but pressed the Schrader valve, fuel squirted out.
Fuel pressure holds steady at 35 PSI idle, raises to 45 PSI at 2500 RPM.
Both 02S heated sensors are equal voltage output to PCM.
Checked exhaust manifold on Bank 2 with Non contact Laser, all three Cyl's read ~300* right after shutdown.
Coolant temp raises to 171.9.
Only thing I could see is, when it shuts down (Stalls), Bank 1 02S voltage reduces to .25 volts, while Bank 2 02S remains at .5 volts longer than Bank 1.
Cooling fans never turn On.
Went thru the cycle of Start-Stall, several times, NO DTC codes where generated.
A cold Start/Run lasts about ~5 minutes, all subsequent Start/Run only lasts about ~1 minute. It appears that a hot (170*) engine has the effect of Stalling, but whats causing it?
I was monitoring each Cyl for misfire, none showed up, at least No code was generated. A code can be generated without turning the MIL/CEL lite On.

 

[79jasper]

Fans don't even come on with the ac?

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[OLDBULL8]

Fans don't even come on with the ac?

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Well yeah they do, but engine never reaches that hi of temp before it stalls.

Replaced Bank two H02 sensor last nite, no difference. Gonna spend another $56 and change Bank one H02 sensor.

Believe it or not, this damn thing has six H02 sensors on it.

The sensor on Bank 1 and 2 before the resonator and Cats do the reporting to the PCM after the exhaust reaches 600*, they are heated sensors, in other words they have a heating element in them. According to the manual the other sensors report to the PCM but do not effect the fuel pulse. What the hell are they even there for.

It goes like this, heated sensor next to the exhaust manifold, then a resonator, then a sensor, then a Cat, then a sensor.

Number 2 bank sensor was easy to change, number 1 bank has to have the exhaust manifold disconnected, cannot get a wrench on it without doing that, takes a 22mm wrench which is pretty good size, can't even get the 12 point end on it. Gonna rent the special socket and see if it extends out far enough to get the wrench on it.

This is getting to be very frustrating.

 

[79jasper]

I wander what would happen if you unplugged the temp sensor?
That should show if it's something getting hot (like the coil opening a crack) or something electrical.

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[OLDBULL8]

Didn't think of doing that. I'll give it a try. According to the manual, they say it's an open loop fuel injection, whatever that means.
On a cold start up, the RPM's are 1500, after about 20 seconds it reduces to 1000 RPM, then after about 10 to 15 seconds it's down to 650 -700, when the engine temp gets up to about 140*F, then it will slowly back down to ~500 RPM, then stalls.

On a hot start, it continually stalls. If I hold the go peddle down so that I get 1500 -2000 RPM, it will run for maybe 10 seconds, then stalls.

I'll be off of here for awhile. Gotta jack the ******* up higher so I can even get to Number 1 bank sensor.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Got there other H02 sensor changed. Seems to run a lot better. Took her out for a run with my Son following me, ran her up to the red line several times (5000 RPM), the Son said I was blowing a lot of black carbon out in the 3 mile run. Gave it a good dose of Seafoam before the run.
Idles a lot better now, got it set at 1000 RPM. I would bet the plugs are pretty well fouled up, gonna replace all of them.

 

[subway]

So did you get it?

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[OLDBULL8]

So did you get it?

Sorry about the delay in answering. On the 28th and 29th I had an operation on my left Ear to remove a Cancer tumor and have skin grafted there. It's one sore SOB today.
I guess your asking about the other H02S, yes I did.

The Van is running just fine so far, no stalling now.

Thanks guys for the help.