Fluid chnage in E4OD throws a code!

tbrumm

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If you're doing a torque converter only swap, then it's pretty much simple, pull off the old, install the new. Stop me if you're already aware, but make sure the cutouts on the snout of the converter engage the ears inside the pump. I'd be trying to save some of that fresh fluid though, there should be a drain plug on the convertor itself.

What did you use for a test gauge? I'm looking at a cheap eBay oil pressure test gauge, 0 to 100psi, around $16.

Thanks, Mccall52 - I know the TC has to seat down on the pump all the way and figured I had to carefully spin it as it slides down. If the TC is seated all the way, there should be a gap between the front of the TC and a straightedge held across the front of the case. I bought a cheaper mechanical oil pressure gauge at O'Reilly's and tee'd that into the cooler line, so it sounds like the ebay gauge you are looking at should work fine. I bought one with a 270° sweep, figuring with more movement of the needle would make the "flick or dip" mentioned by TRANSGO easier to see while driving. Even with a 180° sweep gauge though, you will be able to see the needle move when the computer signals lockup because (at least on mine) there was a 10 psi dip. I wish I had done this test long ago, but I am still wonderring if the diagnosis can really be this simple. TRANSGO goes on to say "If the cooler line gauge does not flick or dip with the LED, then either the solenoid is bad, the lockup valve is stuck or it has the wrong spring in it." So apparently the flick/dip in the gauge is showing that the solenoid and lockup valve are working and sending the required hydraulic pressure to the TC to lock the clutch, but (in my case) the TC clutch is simply not able to lock for whatever reason. There is no noise, no shudder or chatter, just no lock.
 

david85

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I don't suppose any of the documentation states how much of a pressure drop you're supposed to see?

There are several valves in the transmission that regulate lockup of the torque converter once the solenoid valve is energized. A failure anywhere along the circuit could cause a failure to lock.
 

tbrumm

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I don't suppose any of the documentation states how much of a pressure drop you're supposed to see?

There are several valves in the transmission that regulate lockup of the torque converter once the solenoid valve is energized. A failure anywhere along the circuit could cause a failure to lock.

No, unfortuntely TRANSGO does not give a spec for the pressure drop - only mentions a "flick/dip" in the gauge reading. I ahve been enjoying your "tin bashing" thread BTW!
 

mccall52

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...There is no noise, no shudder or chatter, just no lock.

There's one difference between your situation and mine, shudder. It's not bad, just enough for me to notice. Always uphill, almost always at the same place. I can usually predict when the flashing light will appear by feel.

There's a line pressure tap on the driver side of the transmission case, looks perfect to loosen the transfer case lever boot and run the pressure gauge into the cab for testing.
 

tbrumm

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There's one difference between your situation and mine, shudder. It's not bad, just enough for me to notice. Always uphill, almost always at the same place. I can usually predict when the flashing light will appear by feel.

There's a line pressure tap on the driver side of the transmission case, looks perfect to loosen the transfer case lever boot and run the pressure gauge into the cab for testing.

If you plug the gauge into that pressure port, you will need a glycerin filled pressure gauge capable of reading 500 psi. See post numbers 190 and 192 by OLDBULL8 regarding using that port to test pressure.
 

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Thanks, Mccall52 - I know the TC has to seat down on the pump all the way and figured I had to carefully spin it as it slides down. If the TC is seated all the way, there should be a gap between the front of the TC and a straightedge held across the front of the case. I bought a cheaper mechanical oil pressure gauge at O'Reilly's and tee'd that into the cooler line, so it sounds like the ebay gauge you are looking at should work fine. I bought one with a 270° sweep, figuring with more movement of the needle would make the "flick or dip" mentioned by TRANSGO easier to see while driving. Even with a 180° sweep gauge though, you will be able to see the needle move when the computer signals lockup because (at least on mine) there was a 10 psi dip. I wish I had done this test long ago, but I am still wonderring if the diagnosis can really be this simple. TRANSGO goes on to say "If the cooler line gauge does not flick or dip with the LED, then either the solenoid is bad, the lockup valve is stuck or it has the wrong spring in it." So apparently the flick/dip in the gauge is showing that the solenoid and lockup valve are working and sending the required hydraulic pressure to the TC to lock the clutch, but (in my case) the TC clutch is simply not able to lock for whatever reason. There is no noise, no shudder or chatter, just no lock.


Most likely the lock up piston has failed. A bad seal or the piston has cracked. Your converter is bad.
 

mccall52

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If you plug the gauge into that pressure port, you will need a glycerin filled pressure gauge capable of reading 500 psi. See post numbers 190 and 192 by OLDBULL8 regarding using that port to test pressure.

Yeah. Let's not do that.

I need to replace the rubber cooler circuit lines up front anyway, I'll tee in up there and run a hose to the cab. I want to run the same test you did.

Just out of curiosity, there is a coupling in one of my rubber transmission cooler lines that I plan to eliminate when I replace them. In my mind it is acting as a restriction. As such, can a partially blocked cooler circuit contribute to lockup problems?
 
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tbrumm

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Just out of curiosity, there is a coupling in one of my rubber transmission cooler lines that I plan to eliminate when I replace them. In my mind it is acting as a restriction. As such, can a partially blocked cooler circuit contribute to lockup problems?
I am not sure what the answer is to that. However, I have run a remote filter in the outflow line from the trans to the cooler and I don't think that causes any issues with lockup. So the remote filter is a Motorcraft FL1A oil filter and the trans outflow first goes into that filter and then to the big B&M stacked plate cooler. I configured it that way so the expensive cooler would at least be protected if there was a failure in the trans and the filter would hopefully catch the debris.
 

FORDF250HDXLT

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this is tough.so who knows what the issue was the first time and now you think the used converter you had installed isn't any good? you sounded pretty confident about the used converter.im not sure i would pull the trans and then not pull and split the pump for inspection,if not just upgrade to a reman f5 and mod it while there.you have a lot more faith in your old pre '94 teca than i do too.:D
(i lost faith in that thing all the way back from the start.)
 

tbrumm

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When you were modding your pump, did you drill the hole near the lockup regulator like Shift Technologies wants, or did you leave it solid, like Transgo wants?

I instructed the trans guy to do only the TransGo pump mods and not the Superior pump mods. And he actually called me again when he got to that point to be double sure that was what I wanted done.
 

tbrumm

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this is tough.so who knows what the issue was the first time and now you think the used converter you had installed isn't any good? you sounded pretty confident about the used converter.im not sure i would pull the trans and then not pull and split the pump for inspection,if not just upgrade to a reman f5 and mod it while there.you have a lot more faith in your old pre '94 teca than i do too.:D
(i lost faith in that thing all the way back from the start.)

Well, the TECA continues to signal for lockup like it is supposed to and that is why I still have faith in it. (faith is a bit too strong a word though). So the TECA is signalling the solenoid to lock the TC, the solenoid pack is new and tested so that appears to be doing what it should be doing. Now, the lockup valve still "could" be a problem, but he TRANSGO diagnosis sheet clearly states if the gauge needle flicks/dips the solenoid, valave body and lockup valve are okay. The only "unknown" quantity in the whole equation now is that used TC. Why would it be bad? I don't know-the guy I bought it from swears up and down it is (was) fine and it did not appear to be damaged in shipping when I recieved it. At this point, my plan is to drop the trans, install the new TC and see what happens. I don't really want to try and tackle pulling and splitting the pump myself. In all honesty, I think if the new TC does not correct the problem, I will pull the trans back out and take it into another trans shop and have them pull and replace the pump if necessary. So, what was the original problem when this whole thing started? More than likely just the oem TC getting tired and the fact that oem lockup pressure was marginal too. If I had purchased a new TC when I orginally had the work done, I probably would have had the truck back at 100% long ago, but I took a risk with a used part and that is the way it goes sometimes.
 

FORDF250HDXLT

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When you were modding your pump, did you drill the hole near the lockup regulator like Shift Technologies wants, or did you leave it solid, like Transgo wants?

i did both.im not saying it was right but i did both.
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i wasn't getting lockup in 3rd gear but that was because i was stupid and used a pickup TECA i nthe f450.with it's 5.13's the pickup teca wont command lockup when going so slow.
i installed a f450 teca and now it's working perfect as i suspected it would.

it would be interesting to call transgo and ask them why they don't want that location drilled out if it's been modded as such.
with a an trans that i was simply fixing up to get me by for now,i wasn't scared.i doubt it's a big deal either way but it would still be nice to know.
 

tbrumm

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i did both.im not saying it was right but i did both.
it would be interesting to call transgo and ask them why they don't want that location drilled out if it's been modded as such.
with a an trans that i was simply fixing up to get me by for now,i wasn't scared.i doubt it's a big deal either way but it would still be nice to know.

yes, that would be interesting to find out. It must not make a great deal of difference otherwise you would have found out by now. I think it is just two different companies two different methods of accomplishing the same thing. Transgo is obviously aware of the Superior method as Transgo instructions say to plug that hole when modding the pump, if the hole exists. I assume if the hole hole exists it wasn't there from the factory but I could be wrong.
 
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