Any Kind of Power upgrades for a N/A IDI?

CHarlan

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Just curious. I work with a guy, and he wants to do something to his truck, either a Cummins Conversion, or maybe put a turbo on his 91 model. I told him he would probably see more gain with a fresh turbodiesel swap, but the only problem is that the new PSD's are all electronic, all the way from the first year in 1995 to current. He is looking at the 6BT Cummins as well... I told him it would be easier to go the CTD way, rather than try to get all the electronics for the PSD... What do y'all think? I am not trying to start a brand war, but just want honest opinions. Remember. I am BRAND DIESEL over anything else.
 

MUDDY

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couple yrs ago a neighbr got a n/a idi and asked me wht i thought he shld do to gain performance. of course i told him a 5.9 ctd:D LOL . he didnt think it funny. i told him neith did i. im serious. told him i ask a friend who worked at wentland diesel. his answer,,,,,,,,,,,,,5.9 swap;p . neighbor couldnt afford a swap. pricing turbo for the idi n/a he cant afford that either and egt on most of em too warm towin just trbo install.

basickly some pump mods and some air mods were what my expert friend recomended,,,,and that only gains slight hp, so chris,if u frind can go for a 5.9 swap that be way to go for serious imprvmnt. there is many many older fords rnd here that did these swaps. owners very happy
 

turbokid

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I agree with muddy.
A small amount of hp can be gained from advancing the timing slightly, turning in the fuel screw about a sixth turn, (one flat).
(On passenger side of pump, under cover, bar over the engine until you can see it.)
Intake mods, and make sure he still has a cold air intake.

Other than that, CTD or Isuzu. :D
 

kcyard

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alot of guys have put turbos on and are really happy with them the three that i hear of the most are the banks then ats and hypermax and if you turn the pump up and give it spme air it will run with a powerstroke these motors just need to be turen to run great also if the injection pump, injectors and returnlines and caps are stock that woul help to replace or rebuild just some info KC
 

CHarlan

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Hmm.... Sounds good... I didnt get to see him, but I am sure he will freak when I tell him he can drop a CTD in there.
 

Mikes91

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Noticed the earlier replies came from folks driving Dodges... and I'm not totally convinced this site is free of trolls... so I will give you the perspective of a fellow who owns and runs a '91 Ford diesel and has upped its power by adding a turbo, new injectors, and injector pump refurb.

My standard load is a 10,000 pound horse trailer, right up against what Ford rated my truck's GCWR at back in '91. Before moving to California for graduate school, I pulled from Macon to past Tampa and back at 75-80 on all but the longer/steeper hills. Lots of runs between GA-FL to horse races with no trouble or lack of power. Acceleration is adequate with the turbo... good enough to merge safely and much better than before the turbo went on.

Before deciding to add the turbo, I priced a Cummins swap for my truck at $12,000 after I made the required air conditioning changeover and other changes that were needed for the trans to mate with the Cummins engine. I decided it just isn't worth the sawing and other mods you'd have to do, and the price was outrageous. If I really wanted a Cummins, which I don't, I could have bought the whole truck, used, for not much more than $12,000.

The 7.3 is a good engine and you can turbo, exhaust, and add a transmission performance module for $3000 if you do the work yourself.

Check out www.ford-cummins.com for swap details... pricey and not necessarily better than a turbo'd 7.3 with appropriate supporting mods in my experience.

A couple of us are working on 400+hp, 850+ torque 7.3L IDI rebuilds for our trucks... we'll sort out the difficulties sooner or later and hopefully that'll provide a good path for others wishing to get performance out of their trucks. Those numbers are downrated from what is possible... need the engine to last.

There are folks with considerable knowledge on BOMBING the IDI engines. Ken at Diesel Performance Specialists and a couple of us on thedieselstop.com.

Elsewhere in this thread I read someone's post about EGTs being high with turbos on a 7.3 I have run my EGTs to about 1200 on longer hills before backing out of the truck to keep things cool while pulling my horses, 10,000+ pounds. BUT EGTs running hot have HARDLY been a troublesome issue. Slowing down 2-5 mph up that hill never has failed to cool things off... and I won't hit 1200 on any but the longer hills.

Performancewise, I pulled 6500 pounds of car, trailer, and gear from Macon, GA to Monterey, CA in the heat of last SUMMER and didn't have any EGT problems... but did have to slow down to keep the truck cool near Flagstaff, AZ and in some of the CA mountains. Not for lack of power, but for cooling.

No big deal. Semis have to slow down to keep temps cool, too. I was running with the semis through NM/AZ at 85-95mph, no sweat. Caught unloaded 4-bangers up long hills in CA. Had the attention of one semi driver who was wondering aloud how an IDI just passed him on the CB.

Bottom line... I'd suggest your friend consider putting a Banks, ATS, or Hypermax turbo on his truck. He should do a compression check on the engine first, then a Blackstone oil analysis, before spending the money on the turbo.

I turbo'd with 190,000 miles and have never looked back. Latest Blackstone engine oil analysis came up clean despite more than 4,000 towing miles and 5 months on the oil I sent for the sample.

Not trying to be offensive, but from the replies I saw here it looks like a couple fellows who replied may not have experience working with hopped up IDIs. Just trying to give you some knowledge based on my own experience with my truck since adding the turbo and other mods.

If I were you I'd go to thedieselstop.com and check the IDI forums out there. LOTS of honest information there that this site just doesn't have yet because it is brand new and may not have the experienced heads tuned in yet. Posts date back several years... so you can get lots of good, honest information based on folks' experience--not their suppositions/assumptions.


Mike
 
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argve

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Tell your buddy that the best money spent towards getting more power out of an IDI is hands down adding a turbo. You can throw propane at it but it really does not help that much unless you add more air in the mix because what you will run into is more fuel with less air increases temps. I have driven and IDI with propane and yes it added power but not enough to make me run out and strap a BBQ tank to my truck.

I owned my IDI for quite a few years and drove it both with and without a turbo for many many miles. Even my wife made the comment after adding the turbo that we should have done it a long time before.

Now you can get more power by just turning up the fuel but you run into heat problems (EGT's) because you have not added more air in and out. This is main limitation on diesel engines (any brand) in order to make the added power usable on a daily basis.

Any time you turn up the fuel he needs to have a pyro to keep an eye on the EGT's.

Turbo systems run anywhere from around $1600~2800. Hypermax are the cheaper ones with Banks being the highest priced. There are differences so he will need to look at each one carefully to make the right choice for him. But all will add more power.

Now whip out yer -Flame Thr because the :fan:

I used to own an IDI (1991 CC Dually) and threw a lot of money at her to make her faster/quicker/pull better and it takes a lot of money to make an IDI perform. I did just about the full boat without diving into the guts to lower compression. I did the water/**** injection (which turned out badly) which she would run with a early chipped PSD, the PSD'ers comment was "what you got under the hood of that thing, your stuck to me like glue" but having now a CTD in my garage there is no comparison, the CTD throws the power to ground in much larger quanities than the IDI ever could reliablity or cheaply. Yes the IDI is a good engine but if more power is what he wants then I would say from all my experience/trials/tribulations (read blood sweat tears) then he needs to look at something else (be it Dmax, CTD or PSD) If he is wanting to keep his body style then I would say a swap would be where it's at but as Mike said it's not cheap, it's cost will rivial a rebuild on a IDI while adding the goodies to her. So he needs to really look at what he wants to achieve as in power levels. If it's PSD slightly chipped then the IDI can do that but BOMB'd then no - not and still be a 300k engine. That is from experience.
 

Mikes91

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An IDI won't perform as well as a second generation Cummins, just as a first generation Cummins won't perform as well as a PSD... LEAPS AND BOUNDS improvement in performance with each new design revision of these motors--I'm downright impressed with performance that's offered in the new trucks although it seems to come at the expense of higher engine RPMs and more carlike performance. Not what I want.

Many of us who have IDIs just like the body style... myself included. My first memories of diesel pickups rolling down the highways were 1987 F-350s pulling horse trailers to events in east Texas and around my home near Houston. I thought, "self, that's a fine looking rig right there--even looks better with the horses in tow--I want one like that someday!!" So, that's what I drive now and I've gotten the performance I need out of her. Still see LOTS of IDIs on the road doing work... especially here in California... guess the climate is kinder to auto bodies here.

If your friend wants to keep the IDI... as has been said... turbo/exhaust is the least expensive way to go. The Banks Sidewinder system is relatively expensive but comes with exhaust, TransCommand, turbo, and gauges. A used PSD or Ram with noticeably more power would run him a bank loan of probably $14,000+.


Mike
 

RGMS4X4

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I just like my good'ole IDI just like she came, stock to the bone.
With the miles she has on her I'm gonna leave'er alone.
If she gets to where she can't pull my bass boat up the ramp:mad: Then : HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM:yell:
 

geonc

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Noticed the earlier replies came from folks driving Dodges... and I'm not totally convinced this site is free of trolls...

Easy there Mike;)

Those guys were just stating truths:sorry:.TO POINT!
Personally I have put over 600k mi on my two previous IDI's and I worked 'em HARD.
700 mi a week for 5/6 years.

I'll let you in on a little clue......Show me a PSD or a mildly tweaked Cummins that pulls like a turbo IDI...........................

BELOW 1800 turns:cool

Turbo/intercooler, tweaked pump, turbo rods, oilcooler and a good guages....the IDI WILL:rock:

Argve prolly hands down has done the most to his and finally reached the limit of the bottom end.
Not to mention his driving style is WFO:D

And I mean that a s a compliment;)

Landyaght{ken} is charting some dark territory and his power looks great:smoke:
Don't give up on the IDI....IMVHO it will last much longer than a PSD.......................raw power is not every mans goal in buying a diesel......It's really the mileage expectations of the engine that lure 75 percent to diesel.
 

Mikes91

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Thanks... I really gotta agree with the 1800 rpm statement... Phenomenal difference between < 1800 and above 1800...

As I recall, these engines were sold when the interstate speed limit was 55 or just becoming 65. Not sure what RPM I'm turning at 55 mph... but imagine it is close to 1800... which (as I recall) is very near peak torque.



Mike
 

argve

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Mike on rollers The Enterprise had peak torque at around 2200-2400, yes she had decent torque at 1800 but was still climbing. The crossover point for torque and horsepower was 2600 which was my thinking before I ran her on the dyno because she pulled quite well up the hills at that RPM. If I was over that point she would back down on the speed and if much lower than 1500-1700 she would lug (which is not good). So the main power was pretty much between those two points.

Never got around to running her on the rollers with the water injection but she would push out the 2600 a little up to around 2800 but empty she would still pull well at 3200 (yes 3200 rpms - heck she was still accelerating down the highway at 3400) but she did not last long enough to actually make it to a dyno - wonder why...

I have misplaced the dyno sheets I suspect they are somewhere hiding under the seat or in the map pocket on the back of the drivers seat of The Enterprise. I think I posted the numbers in the basement if ya wanted to go digging for them. It was last spring at the big dyno that the Dodge boys had put together and invited the Ford boys along.
 

Mikes91

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Aren't folks successfully running water/**** injection on these IDIs? I seem to recall that there are kits available for these trucks...

Did you ever formulate why the Enterprise grenaded shortly after the H 2 Oh?


Mike
 
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