6.9 Injectors..

D_Fresh361

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Posts
305
Reaction score
86
Location
Victoria, TX
In the market for new injectors now. I have a new bull moose in the box that these will be run with.

I really don't want to start a debate here but I'd like to know who's currently got the best injectors from a (I hate to say it) "performance" stand point. Does it come down to personal preference here or is there really a difference in the injectors on the market? Reliability of course is still and always will remain a concern.

Bull Moose
(Injectors)
Turbo
Intercooler
Studs
Exhaust
Gauges
etc...

Injectors and studs are the last two things I need in order to get this ball rolling.

Thanks guys!
 

Macrobb

Full Access Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Posts
2,380
Reaction score
1,234
Location
North Idaho
Personally, I'm a fan of IDI Performance's injectors; they seem to hold up just fine, and pop consistently.
I don't care about the spray pattern myself, as long as it's consistent between injectors. I figure spraying diesel at a (really)hot pre-cup will take care of any issues there.
On a direct-injected engine, it matters a /lot/ more.

On the other hand, considering you are going with the Moose pump, you might want to go with the Moose injectors, so you have a "matched set" of parts - This way if something goes wrong, and you talk to Conestoga, the first question isn't "Is it your injectors?"

Unfortunately, I don't have any personal experience with the Moose injectors myself. They are also /far/ more expensive than IDI Performance's products... which may or may not be warranted. Still, they are out of my price range when it comes to getting a set for side-by-side testing.

Just remember, though, no matter what injector you choose: It's a wear item. Don't expect to run it more than about 100K miles, for optimal performance. Sure, some may run a lot longer, at reduced performance and fuel economy.

edit:
I'm trying to come up with some numbers/info for you on how that setup should perform, but I'm having trouble finding /good/ dyno numbers for the Moose pumps.
I've found:
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
- 1993 idi turbo with bull moose and misters, making 7 PSI.
(I don't want to start a war here, but I /just/ dropped my RD2-110 into my factory-turbo '93, disconnected the wastegate and hit 16+ PSI of boost before backing off)

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
- Gordy's Moose'd 6.9 banks IDI. @1:31, there's a very brief moment you can see the dyno graph. Freeze frame it and look at the HP number. I'm not seeing more than 130 RWHP, even though the torque numbers are really high(I'm guessing the RPM calc is off, so the torque numbers are off -- there's no computer for them to connect their tach probe to)
Now, that's really low. Looking at the smoke, I'm thinking he's got a sketchy valve or something - look at the 'puffing' black smoke as he revs up. I'm thinking the pump can make a but more than that.
 
Last edited:

D_Fresh361

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2015
Posts
305
Reaction score
86
Location
Victoria, TX
Personally, I'm a fan of IDI Performance's injectors; they seem to hold up just fine, and pop consistently.
I don't care about the spray pattern myself, as long as it's consistent between injectors. I figure spraying diesel at a (really)hot pre-cup will take care of any issues there.
On a direct-injected engine, it matters a /lot/ more.

On the other hand, considering you are going with the Moose pump, you might want to go with the Moose injectors, so you have a "matched set" of parts - This way if something goes wrong, and you talk to Conestoga, the first question isn't "Is it your injectors?"

Unfortunately, I don't have any personal experience with the Moose injectors myself. They are also /far/ more expensive than IDI Performance's products... which may or may not be warranted. Still, they are out of my price range when it comes to getting a set for side-by-side testing.

Just remember, though, no matter what injector you choose: It's a wear item. Don't expect to run it more than about 100K miles, for optimal performance. Sure, some may run a lot longer, at reduced performance and fuel economy.

edit:
I'm trying to come up with some numbers/info for you on how that setup should perform, but I'm having trouble finding /good/ dyno numbers for the Moose pumps.
I've found:
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
- 1993 idi turbo with bull moose and misters, making 7 PSI.
(I don't want to start a war here, but I /just/ dropped my RD2-110 into my factory-turbo '93, disconnected the wastegate and hit 16+ PSI of boost before backing off)

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
- Gordy's Moose'd 6.9 banks IDI. @1:31, there's a very brief moment you can see the dyno graph. Freeze frame it and look at the HP number. I'm not seeing more than 130 RWHP, even though the torque numbers are really high(I'm guessing the RPM calc is off, so the torque numbers are off -- there's no computer for them to connect their tach probe to)
Now, that's really low. Looking at the smoke, I'm thinking he's got a sketchy valve or something - look at the 'puffing' black smoke as he revs up. I'm thinking the pump can make a but more than that.
\

I think I'm going to end up going with the Moose Mister injectors has you made a good point about having a "matched set" of parts. I've heard great things about both companies so I feel it comes down to preference if no one can really say that one brand of injector is proven to spray A LOT more fuel than the other.


Completely off topic here but I bought my bull moose well over a year ago. It has literally been sitting in the same bag and box it was shipped in since purchased. Unopened. Is the pump fine to be installed at any time with no issues or is there caution that should be taken into consideration? I've been purchasing all of my parts in "stages" if you will. Just want to make sure before moving forward after I receive all of my parts.
 

Macrobb

Full Access Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Posts
2,380
Reaction score
1,234
Location
North Idaho
I think I'm going to end up going with the Moose Mister injectors has you made a good point about having a "matched set" of parts. I've heard great things about both companies so I feel it comes down to preference if no one can really say that one brand of injector is proven to spray A LOT more fuel than the other.
I don't think injectors matter that much with the IDIs, because it's a 'dumb' injector. The injection pump has control over what gets sprayed. Now, perhaps you can end up with an easier-to-flow injector, but I'm not sure how that will end up working out.

I also haven't seen any side-by-side tests of injectors to check flow rates.
It would be interesting to see a IP on a test stand, run with 1 line to a Moose injector, one to a stock injector, and one to a stage1 injector, and capture the fuel in a container. Run it for some period of time at WOT and see what sort of differences you get.

Completely off topic here but I bought my bull moose well over a year ago. It has literally been sitting in the same bag and box it was shipped in since purchased. Unopened. Is the pump fine to be installed at any time with no issues or is there caution that should be taken into consideration? I've been purchasing all of my parts in "stages" if you will. Just want to make sure before moving forward after I receive all of my parts.
I'm guessing it's been filled with 'calibration oil', like anything I've bought has been.
If so, it shouldn't go bad or get sticky sitting in the box.
I do know, however, that diesel sitting in an IP /does/ evaporate to some extent over time and /seems/ to get 'sticky'.
 

austin92

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Posts
982
Reaction score
295
Location
Brazil. IN
I hope this thread gets a lot of knowledgeable people. I plan to buy a pump, injectors, and return lines soon. I really don't want to spend 1500$ but I don't want to buy crap products either


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Macrobb

Full Access Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Posts
2,380
Reaction score
1,234
Location
North Idaho
I hope this thread gets a lot of knowledgeable people. I plan to buy a pump, injectors, and return lines soon. I really don't want to spend 1500$ but I don't want to buy crap products either
I'm honestly surprised nobody else has commented... but that's life I guess.
Either way, you really only have 3, perhaps 4 options that are viable:
1. Conestoga - Price $$$
2. R&D(stock or stage1) - Price $$ (Oddly, he seems to have screwed up his store - I can find an injector 'core charge', but not the injector prices themselves on his website. IIRC it was like $225 or so).
3. Typ4 sells the same stock injectors as R&D does, not sure on price.
4. New Stanadyne injectors. Here's a 'genuine' set for $364. https://www.accuratediesel.com/shop/14.html

Now, any of those options should work just fine as far as fuel delivery goes. The first three options use used injector bodies with new pintles and seats. These are the wear parts of the injector, and what 'goes out' over time.
The 4th option in /theory/ should be just as good(being a genuine OEM part), but I don't know how well their quality control is.

I bought my own injector pressure tester a few years back, and so I can adjust injectors and rebuild them myself. I have been using R&D wear parts in mine, which are /far/ better than the 'worn' parts coming out of old injectors. You can pressure-match old injectors easily enough, but without replacing the pintle and seat...it's a crapshoot as to whether it'll stay anywhere near you set it after a few thousand miles.

This is why I say NEVER buy 'rebuilt' or 'remanufactured' injectors from any place other than #1-3 - My understanding is that they are the only ones replacing that part.
 

79jasper

Chickenhawk
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Posts
17,367
Reaction score
1,930
Location
Collinsville, Oklahoma
It's likely because the topic of injectors has been beat to death, reincarnated 5 times, and beat to death again.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

austin92

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Posts
982
Reaction score
295
Location
Brazil. IN
I'm honestly surprised nobody else has commented... but that's life I guess.
Either way, you really only have 3, perhaps 4 options that are viable:
1. Conestoga - Price $$$
2. R&D(stock or stage1) - Price $$ (Oddly, he seems to have screwed up his store - I can find an injector 'core charge', but not the injector prices themselves on his website. IIRC it was like $225 or so).
3. Typ4 sells the same stock injectors as R&D does, not sure on price.
4. New Stanadyne injectors. Here's a 'genuine' set for $364. https://www.accuratediesel.com/shop/14.html

Now, any of those options should work just fine as far as fuel delivery goes. The first three options use used injector bodies with new pintles and seats. These are the wear parts of the injector, and what 'goes out' over time.
The 4th option in /theory/ should be just as good(being a genuine OEM part), but I don't know how well their quality control is.

I bought my own injector pressure tester a few years back, and so I can adjust injectors and rebuild them myself. I have been using R&D wear parts in mine, which are /far/ better than the 'worn' parts coming out of old injectors. You can pressure-match old injectors easily enough, but without replacing the pintle and seat...it's a crapshoot as to whether it'll stay anywhere near you set it after a few thousand miles.

This is why I say NEVER buy 'rebuilt' or 'remanufactured' injectors from any place other than #1-3 - My understanding is that they are the only ones replacing that part.
Do you know the difference between the 2 injectors listed on conestoga and r&d? Seams like they each try to list a stock and performance. Just different spray patterns? Found a set of new stanadyne's on eBay for 280. Then there's "performance" stuff for over 700$. There's stock pumps at the part store for 385$ then stock pumps from places you mentioned are almost twice that. Hard to make a decision


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Macrobb

Full Access Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Posts
2,380
Reaction score
1,234
Location
North Idaho
Do you know the difference between the 2 injectors listed on conestoga and r&d? Seams like they each try to list a stock and performance. Just different spray patterns? Found a set of new stanadyne's on eBay for 280. Then there's "performance" stuff for over 700$.
On the R&D stuff, the stock ones are, well, stock. The nozzles are a copy of a BB or G code, IIRC. Basically, whatever Justin thought was the best.
The stage1 injectors are basically 'reamed out', just opening the bottom taper area. The spray pattern is probably not as 'good', but I haven't had any issues with it. It looks fine on a pop-tester, and doesn't produce any more smoke than stock injectors when you run tons of fuel through it.

There's stock pumps at the part store for 385$ then stock pumps from places you mentioned are almost twice that. Hard to make a decision
Injector pumps, well... there's a big difference there. The cheapest stock pumps are basically just pulled apart, re-sealed and shoved back together. I'd say that 10-50% of them have issues with hot starting, due to the head-rotor clearances having worn out of tolerance. The problem is, that part by itself is a $400 component, so the cheap shops aren't going to replace it if it's needed.

R&D and (I'm assuming) Conestoga /will/, which is why the costs are higher.

I know that R&D rates their pumps(CC rating) with 6.9 small-diameter lines, and stock injectors, and rated at 2800-3000 RPM. So it's a really 'conservative' number. Peak flow will be higher than that. Not sure about Conestoga's numbers.

The higher R&D pumps(110CC and above) use non-DB2 components: the 110CC uses a DB4 cam-pin for added strength, and has more 'fill ports' EDM'ed into the rotor. That's why it costs so much more than the 90CC.

The 150/180 pumps use /4/ plungers instead of 2 for squishing the fuel; it's basically a DB4 pump hybrid. This is why it's a very expensive pump - the parts aren't available cheaply. But it also will do what it says it will do, at the worst case.
Not sure on the Conestoga equivalent, but I don't really see anything in the same category as R&D's performance pumps. Their biggest /might/ be compared against the biggest Conestoga pump, as they both need performance fuel pumps... but I'm really concerned about Conestoga's warning that a drop in fuel pressure could /ruin/ the pump and have to add a special cutoff. R&Ds pumps don't need this - my understanding is that a 180CC R&D pump, if the pressure drops to 0, will basically end up a 150CC pump... the parts are basically the same, the tuning is all that's different.

Also... I have /seen/ Justin make over 400 HP at the wheels with one of his pumps. I have not seen dyno numbers for Conestoga's best pump. Believe me, I'd like to see it. (Heck, I'd run one on a dyno myself, if someone sent me one... Dyno numbers talk.)
 

79jasper

Chickenhawk
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Posts
17,367
Reaction score
1,930
Location
Collinsville, Oklahoma
While dyno numbers talk, imo longevity speaks volumes.
Iirc, Mel said he replaces the head and rotor on every pump.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

austin92

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Posts
982
Reaction score
295
Location
Brazil. IN
How do you guys think the stage 1's compare to the moose misters? Any way to spot a fake/rebuilt injector being sold as a new stanadyne?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

pelky350

Full Access Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Posts
1,546
Reaction score
382
Location
Springfield, OR
I don't know what by in the first video a bull moose isn't only running 7psi on a 7.3 turbo truck. I have a 90cc r and d and his stage one injectors and I have almost hit 20psi on a 7.3 with 088 ats turbo. I'm not saying anything bad about Mel's products I think something's wrong with the turbo on that truck though. I think all the products offered by conestoga and idi performance are great but as everyone has said before we all want to see sumo numbers with these different products. We need a dyno and a factory turbo truck for base line and then start installing products and see what happens lol Justin already made a YouTube of a factory turbo truck with basic stock/free mods now we need moose pumps injectors and r and d pumps injectors and a dyno lol
 

IDIBRONCO

IDIBRONCO
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Posts
12,235
Reaction score
10,925
Location
edmond, ks
Austin, the first thing I'd do to avoid the fake new injectors is to read the Hall of Shame sticky at the top and not buy from them. Or just buy from a known quality source like Mel, Russ, or Justin.
 

austin92

Full Access Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Posts
982
Reaction score
295
Location
Brazil. IN
I truly wish I had 700$ for a set of injectors. But when someone is offereing new stanadyne's for 280$ it's hard to look past. Especially when they have good feed back. I'm between the rd2-90 and bull moose pump if I decide to spend more than 385 for an auto parts store unit. Still undecided on injectors. I do wish I could write a blank check and have someone send me the best of the best for my truck but let's face it, I drive a mostly stock idi, not a 1200hp powerstroke. Truck and my wallet has its limits. Tax return is the only reason I'll be able to do this and I have to do so much more than just the injection pump and injectors lol. I need to message type4 to see what he's asking for injectors. R&d doesn't have prices for their injectors. Need to call them. I appreciate everyone's help. To the OP sorry if I hijacked. If anyone wants to elaborate on injectors, I'm all ears and love to learn. Thanks again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

pelky350

Full Access Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Posts
1,546
Reaction score
382
Location
Springfield, OR
I believe I paid just over 300 for my stage 1's from him I can't remember though. I change my injectors before I got a new pump and there was a noticble different from the bb code injectors that were in there before(more power) nothing extreme but defiantly noticble and smoother running
 

Forum statistics

Threads
91,217
Posts
1,128,487
Members
24,045
Latest member
Ramtough01

Staff online

Top