6.0 2003 TURBO F@RTING.........

CaptTom

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..sorry about the language in my title, but, I think that is what it's called when the turbo is fluffing. Actually, it should be described as a burp because it's coming from the intake end of things, but unlike a gas engine which backfires, air just comes out the turbo intake(????) and sounds like fluffing. :rolleyes:

I saw a post, I can no longer find, that helped identify the sound, but no suggestions as to its cause or if it's an indicator of something else going down. The guy even had a video link to a truck with the anomaly. Sounds like my diesel has gas. :eek:

Does anyone know what causes this??

Air cleaner is clean, oil is clean, water is good. I cannot find any air leaks, turbo bearings seem to be good, vanes are all intact...at least on the intake side, I've haven't removed the turbo to see the exhaust side.... yet.

No codes have popped up either, and I plugged in my Kragen special reader just in case I didn't see a temporary engine light, nothing.

It usually happens when I throttle up a hill with a load. When I back off the accelerator and re-accelerate, it immediately goes away.

I've got about 140,000 miles on her and I have no turbo gauges nor add ons, all factory original.

Thanks for your help.
 

snicklas

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CaptTom,

That is called Turbo Stall. I have been doing searches on Turbo Stall and have found some info. I am still looking and will post more when I find something.
 

CaptTom

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Thanks for identifying at least what appears to be proper terminology. Turbo f@rting didn't get me anywhere, but it was the only term I could remember/think of.... aka brain f@rting. cookoo

I'll look too and see if we come up with similar or opposing points on it. I'm sure it could help someone else too.

THX
 

zpd307

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did you get it fixed yet..... are you experiencing the sound when you left off the throttle quickly after working the motor, or as you are driving. the turbo has no blow off valve so when it is worked and the throttle is let off suddenly, the unused boost has to go somewhere. so it goes back out the intake. if it is farting as you are driving, the vanes are sticking. the variable vanes are always moving to provide the ideal boost at any given time. when they start to stick, from soot and rust, the vanes will be in a position where they are not supposed to be. either over or under boosting the motor. ford used to slap on a reman turbo to cure it, mine went at 50k, but they now just take them off and clean up the hot side and slap it together again. ford actually came out with a part number for the kit used to clean up the turbo. a person could do this themselves if they were confident enough, as yours wouldnt be replaced under warranty.
 

CaptTom

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SORRY I HAVEN'T......

........as I've been using my economizer go kart to get me around, but, after reading some links on turbo stall, it appears pretty common. Some have replaced the turbo with new/rebuilt factory, some with aftermarkets.... which the users have claimed made it go away altogether.

My bearing appears to be in good shape, no vane/shaft wiggle so no turbo drag.

What we need to do is define turbo stall and turbo surge better.

As described in several places, that farting I'm hearing may be more of a turbo surge... gives the whoosh,whooosh,whooosh sound as it's happening.

I'll need an expert to figure out if it's surge or stall, either way, I lose power when it happens, I let off the pedal momentarily and it goes away.

It happens only when I have a load on the engine, IE: pedal depressed going up a hill, pedal off to coast around a short downhill corner, pedal on when I load it up for another stretch of hill. Doesn't matter if I've got a trailer or not.

It never happens on a straight-away up/down a hill or when I'm in cruise control... nice steady increases/decreases in fuel delivery.

From what I've gathered, the turbo is still spinning hard when I let off the pedal, vehicle slows around corner then tries to catch the fuel delivery up to an already spun up turbo.... the extra pressure created by the already spun up turbo is vented back out the intake as the over-pressured air in, isn't consumed during that brief intermission of fuel delivery-pedal off.

I know, I know, explained poorly, but, it's what I've got.

It has become more frequent over the last six months, or at least I notice it more.

Cleaning the exhaust side may be a simple easy solution as you suggest, but from the things I've read so far, no matter how it is fixed, it can be cured or reduced. It isn't normal, but not abnormal either. Drivers have been putting up with it on Chevies, Fords 6.0/7.3PS's and Cummins too.

One guy I read claims to have replaced factory with a ported ATS turbo and hasn't happened since. I'm always leary of people who brag a lot about their after market stuff because it makes it look like they're factory salesmen. It seems to me, if the problem is caused by a turbo jamming more air in than it can use, a ported turbo would push more air in and create a bigger fart so to speak. I would tend to gravitate more towards the waste-gate proponents at this time.

I'm only a layman at best, so take anything I've surmised with a bottle of salt... but that's my best guess to date.

Got any more ideas?
 

zpd307

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i read up a little on turbo stall/ surge. it seems that it is a problem with the 7.3 motors. and they were experiencing under constant high boost loads. i would read up on turbo cleaning for the 6.0 turbo and see if you think that you can tackle it. with your fluctuating throttle that brings it on, i would lean towards the vanes not being where they are supposed to. disclaimer, i am not an expert. but when my turbo was replaced, anytime i needed power is when it was acting up, even at part throttle.
 

Dirtleg

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. i would read up on turbo cleaning for the 6.0 turbo and see if you think that you can tackle it. with your fluctuating throttle that brings it on, i would lean towards the vanes not being where they are supposed to.


I would agree with this idea. If the vanes were not positioned properly for the throttle input the turbo could be spinning too fast for the given conditions (off throttle) and cause the intake charge to surge back out of the motor due to the fact that it has no place to go.

Turbo vane sticking is common when a 6.0 isn't driven regularly enough. If you've been driving something else most of the time than I could see where you would have this problem.
 

CaptTom

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Now we're getting somewhere.

I have a tendency to agree with the coking up and/or stiffening of the vanes, I hadn't thought of that at all. Since it has become a progressively worse or more frequent situation, it makes some sense.

Now to figure out how to clean it without damaging it using some witch doctors brew getting her back into shape.

Thanks fellas.
 

zpd307

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unfortunately it will happen again and again. when the truck is rarely driven the metal vanes start to rust. sooty exhaust passing through the turbo only helps guncking up things even more. at one time ford reprogrammed the pcm to fluctuate the vanes at idle, to help prevent them from sticking as much. you could actually hear the tone of the motor change as it was doing this. regualr driving and being driven hard every once in a while seems to be the only thing to prevent the turbo from doing it again. i got my 6.0 with 43k on it. it had been sitting at the dealer for while which is what i think caused the turbo to get guncked up. with out taking the turbo apart, i dont know if it can be cleaned up enough to work properly again. i used to frequent the the diesel stop alot back then and i know there were several write ups on cleaning the turbo.
 

tbirdfiend281

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i didnt read any of the posts, but this noise comes from a failure in the exhaust housing of the turbocharger. The vanes stick on the cast iron exhaust housing and then when they break free i guess the truck spikes in boost or has to much or to little boost, then it does this 'chatter' sound

my friends 03 6.0 just started doing it

i wish they sold internal parts for these turbos, and another thing, i have heard, though am not 100% sure, that Chevrolet used this same turbo on the 06-current (LLY, LBZ, LMM) trucks, and does have the same problems as ford because they used stainless steel for the vanes/vane housing assembly. I wonder if there is any trueth to this, because if there is, possibly ford guys can use Chevy turbo guts to accomplish a permanant fix to these pits that form in the exhaust housing.
 

devinf350

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hey...if you are haveing problem with that turbo i got a brand new one for sale...i will let you have it for 400 cash. its off an 07 6.0l f350. let me know. my number is 615 655 4392
 

CaptTom

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DAD-GUMMED BOLT!!!

Good deal, however, I'm in San Diego, don't mail cash and never buy parts sight unseen unless guaranteed refund.

BTW-I found a site that describes how to clean the exhaust side of the 6.0's turbo. I almost had the turbo off yesterday, buuuuuuut...... that freakin' third bolt waaaay in the back wouldn't allow me to rip her lung out.

I haven't looked at this sites policies in awhile, so I won't link a competing sites URL, however, I've found two sites which describes the step by step to cleaning the exhaust side of the turbo. Basically, cleaning that iron lung is easier than the R/R!! If you can scrape a gasket off of a head proper like, you can clean a turbo no sweat.

I'll try again in a few weeks, being a shade tree mechanic in 98+* heat is a little trying and makes for getting at that last fastener a little more frustrating. Anyone got a suggestion to grab that last bolt?

One last thing, preservation or stainless steel as suggested by the bowtie owner a few posts back. Now I'd prefer stainless, but, heat makes stainless as susceptible to rust as regular carbon steel. Just look at your stainless exhaust systems...rusty... and they receive cooler gases than does the exhaust side of the turbo....it's definitely preferred-longer time without rust, but, is it really a long term solution. Preservation of steel seems to be the better solution.

I've heard two things, WD40...I'm no big fan of WD and believe it actually causes rust, the other is coating the inside with anti-sieze....however, the Ford factory manual say no anti-sieze(????) yet some shade tree mechanics swear by this.

Also, part of the reason for the coking up of the exhaust side of the turbo, besides carbonized exhaust, is oil residue from leak-by of the oil seal in the turbo bearing. The oily residue makes carbon stick and of course we know the sticky goo that can cause....which may be why Ford factory doesn't recommend anti-sieze. On the other hand, there has been rust/scale in the exhaust side too... what the heck's a fella to do....besides go aftermarket. With prices of a minimum of $2,500.00 for an aftermarket turbo v. $200.00 in gaskets, cleaners and some knuckle busting in today's economy is there an answer to extending the cleanliness and rust prevention of the exhaust side of the turbo??

How about one of those fuel additive carbon cleaners? You think they'd work all the way up to the turbo after ignition? Some claim to clean up CAT converters in cars, why not the exhaust side of a turbo?

Sorry, more questions than answers.... but HEY! I only bust knuckles when I have to and not because I like to! -cuss :dunno
 

NecessarysFord

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put a egr delete and buy a turbo or have your turbo cleaned and it will take care of it that is what fixed mine it was doing the same thing
 

CaptTom

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Weeeeell.....

...first off, gotta apologize for me not telling what happened and how I fixed it.

After several fuel filter changes(not the problem) and much %#^&#$@#% at my code reader giving me only generic and no direction as to the problem after at least 20 resets clearing the freakin' yellow engine light, the truck fooffing ever more and finally nearly zero guts at throttle.... 6.0 power reminiscent of a 1984 6.9 I used to own and wished I still had...easy fixer... I found a slight tear on my turbo hose between the firewall and hose. I couldn't feel the crack nor see it, until I took the hose off...yet again. Not sure if I damaged it myself or if this was part of the problem initially, you'll see why in just a second. Replaced a stinkin factory 6" rubber hose-cost?? :rotflmao $70.00 on a deal! :puke: Next time I go with duct tape. LOL :rolleyes:

&%$$^&%^* AGAIN! AAAARG!!! -cuss

Not the only problem.

Except this time, the codes popped good code!!!! WOOOHOOOOO! ;Sweet

That cheap freak plastic ICP sender broke in half.... you ever try to seeeee an ICP sender??? Let alone change it out???? -cuss :rotflmao -cuss

Who can I pay to slap that jag-off who thought it was a good idea to put cheap plastic parts measuring high pressure areas subject to high heat in an area nearly inaccessible except for the orangutan armed mechanic with eyes on fingertips.... and of course.... that special clawfoot wrench??? Are you freakin kidding me??? :backoff cookoo

No more turbo fluffing, all the original factory power it ever had and learned a bunch about the ridiculous number of sensors reading air/fuel/oil pressure measurements. ...and now I know where they're all at on my engine and it'll cost a grand to change them all out at once. The ICP is the only one that I nearly drilled a 6" hole thru the firewall in my cab to get to. My arms are stumps and trying to get it laying on a gravel drive-way.... well you get the picture.

So far the EGR is fine, I found out that the EGR system in the '03 is the most reliable of the 6.0 systems, buuuut, I'm still keeping an eye on it.

The turbo was clean, but I polished it anyway...already had it apart. I ended up polishing it as smooth as possible, looked like chrome when I was done, no marring at all. I figured it would release carbon and flash rusting easier.... and yes... anti-seized it, although the heat and centrifugal force will probable just sling it out of there. Did it anyway. Been up-n-running for nearly 60 days now without a problem.

My first whine in 6 years and although a lot of cussing time was spent on this dilemma, I'm thankful oil/water didn't swap places or try to intermarry and the turbo is in one piece. :hail

Hope this helps, sorry I'm so wordy, but thought I'd give you the layman's eye view of this particular problem and have a little fun writing it too.

Thanks to all of you who gave me ideas and offered solutions. it's always hard to diagnose someone elses problems by a crazy description at best.
 

BleednBlue68

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What about if you just hammer the throttle to clean the vaines? I heard you got to really romp on the 6.0s since the vains are variable. You got to do that every once in awhile to clean all the soot off them. Drive it like you stole it!
 

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