Turbo pump on N/A?

derjackistweg · Feb 22, 2017

Here´s an unusual one:

My Pump is probably shot. I can probably get a turbo one for cheap- rebuild for turbo specification. Could/ Would this work out?

I got an Econoline Quigley 4x4, engine is 10/94 185HP rated and N/A. Pump is 2831 5013, as typical for E4OD and 185HP. Injectors checked and party redone (if needed). Of course N/A ones, not "G" code.

Pump specification I can get is: 5070

Will this work?

Problem at this stage is, the engines smokes like hell in a nice blueish.

What about shifting? A proper power curve (HP) will be needed to get a smooth shift. That´s not needed for an manuell like the 5070 is build for, a different FIPL?

derjackistweg · Feb 22, 2017

I answer myself: Answer is no. Turbo pump has 13% more fuel and will smoke even at idle [which is impossible in my country].

IDIoit · Feb 22, 2017

blueish smoke = oil being burned.
address this first
the pump may still be useable if you turn the fuel screw down.
but I would not be working on a IDI van without bran new parts.

derjackistweg · Feb 22, 2017

IDIoit said:
blueish smoke = oil being burned.
address this first
the pump may still be useable if you turn the fuel screw down.
but I would not be working on a IDI van without bran new parts.

Engine has full compression and < 70t miles.

"I would not be working on a IDI van without bran new parts" - I don't get that? Why? Because its so easy to work on due to space?

IDIoit · Feb 22, 2017

because I would only want to do it once! ive timed a van and that was not fun!

Macrobb · Feb 22, 2017

... Yes, it will work. You could even run a RD2 110 CC pump on a NA engine if you wanted to(and I did for a bit, when my turbo piping failed).

Remember, these are NOT gassers. You do NOT have a specific air/fuel ratio to meet; the engine runs lean all the time, usually /really/ lean.

Lets say you put a too-large/too-turned-up pump on an engine. What happens?
It'll idle fine; the governor adjusts the metering valve to add enough fuel to maintain the idle speed.
Light-load / throttle usage will also work just fine. Anywhere below WOT, the metering valve is controlling how much fuel goes into the pump, not the 'fuel screw'.

The only difference is if you give it too much throttle, and go beyond what the air flow can burn cleanly, you'll get black smoke and higher EGTs. Turning the pump down only controls the /maximum/ amount of fuel injected; it effectively allows you to floor the accelerator without creating smoke.

It's a good idea to adjust the fuel screw for your air flow, either up or down, such that you get a light haze at WOT for best performance, but it's not critical.

If you are getting smoke at idle, it's NOT due to the pump being turned up 'too far', it's due to retarded timing. What happens is that the IP will compensate for the partial burn by adding more fuel, which creates even /more/ smoke. Fix the timing, and you won't have any smoke issues at idle/light load no matter *how* big your IP is.

derjackistweg · Feb 23, 2017

IDIoit said:
because I would only want to do it once! ive timed a van and that was not fun!

Correct!

Macrobb said:
... Yes, it will work. You could even run a RD2 110 CC pump on a NA engine if you wanted to(and I did for a bit, when my turbo piping failed).

Remember, these are NOT gassers. You do NOT have a specific air/fuel ratio to meet; the engine runs lean all the time, usually /really/ lean.

Lets say you put a too-large/too-turned-up pump on an engine. What happens?
It'll idle fine; the governor adjusts the metering valve to add enough fuel to maintain the idle speed.
Light-load / throttle usage will also work just fine. Anywhere below WOT, the metering valve is controlling how much fuel goes into the pump, not the 'fuel screw'.

The only difference is if you give it too much throttle, and go beyond what the air flow can burn cleanly, you'll get black smoke and higher EGTs. Turning the pump down only controls the /maximum/ amount of fuel injected; it effectively allows you to floor the accelerator without creating smoke.

It's a good idea to adjust the fuel screw for your air flow, either up or down, such that you get a light haze at WOT for best performance, but it's not critical.

If you are getting smoke at idle, it's NOT due to the pump being turned up 'too far', it's due to retarded timing. What happens is that the IP will compensate for the partial burn by adding more fuel, which creates even /more/ smoke. Fix the timing, and you won't have any smoke issues at idle/light load no matter *how* big your IP is.

there are mostly 2 things for me to consir:
First and most important - we have TÜV in Germany. That means ebery 1-2 years you need to renew the licence for street legality! Otherwise your are mot allowed to drive your car and you get in really (!) bad trouble if you do.
To get the new licence emissions standards need to be fullfilled. NO smoke - I mean Nothing -is part of it. Think of it like in california but even tighter.

Second: I dont want to do this twice, if it smokes or so...

I do know that gas emgines need pretty close to 14:1 vs diesel are between 40-70:1. And a litte more fuel will even give a N/A more punsh - but I need to be conservative. At least before getting the new licence

The one I talked to is from the other side of the atlantic and used to work on these pumps. Thankfully I found him by accident!!!! :Thumbs Up

5 min on the phone regarding my blueish smoke - other thread- he pointed out what he would be after and -Flame Thr

he hit it! Exactly the problem with that IP.

Dieselcrawler · Feb 23, 2017

I currently have been running a factory turbo pump on my 88 NA engine. Runs perfectly fine unless I'm at WOT, then she will put a translucent trail of black. Not billowing dark black, but a haze. Exhaust temps do get hot quickly. I will be swapping pumps soon since this one started leaking out the advance piston

FarmerFrank · Feb 23, 2017

Limit your throttle peddle so it can't go wide open when you get it checked.

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Turbo pump on N/A?

derjackistweg

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derjackistweg

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IDIoit

MachinistFabricator

derjackistweg

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IDIoit

MachinistFabricator

Macrobb

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derjackistweg

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Dieselcrawler

Professional wrench holder

FarmerFrank

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