Rob's '93 at the dyno!

This is my '93:


She cost me $1900 a couple of months ago, and is a stock '93 Ford F-250. She's a 4x4, with a 5-speed ZF S5-42 transmission, Sterling 10.25 rear differential(Limited slip even!), and a factory turbo.
The only non-factory part of this truck is the engine block, which appears to be out of a '91. That motor was swapped in about 60,000 miles ago due to cavitation.
The replacement block does not appear to have been rebuilt.

I recently replaced the unknown-origin rebuilt IP in the truck with my RD2-110 IP that I've had for a couple of years now in my tan '88.
I've also put a pressure-matched set of injectors in the truck - these are just a decent set of Stanadyne's I had lying around, which all pop-tested good and which I pressure-matched myself to within 100 PSI.

The lift pump is a stock mechanical pump; unknown origin.

So, the only 'performance part' on this truck is the IP. Everything else could have rolled off the factory floor back in '93.

I took the truck to J & J Performance in Sandpoint, Idaho.

Here's my results:
View media item 191The basic number here is 246 HP at the wheels, and pretty consistent, too.
Note that:
The first two runs are in 4th gear, and the RPMs are calibrated to that. I think the RPMs are off by a small percentage, perhaps 100 RPM high at 2500 based on running calculations against the raw MPH values.

The nest three runs are in 5th gear. The RPMs here are off, due to them being calculated from MPH by the computer... and it not knowing I put it in 5th. Compensate by .76 to account for gearing.

The last 2 runs were 'letdown' runs - he wanted to see what sort of drive train losses/load I'd get.
I'm thinking the numbers here are incomplete, considering the losses should be highest at higher RPM, not at lower RPM. Plus the whole 'average HP' vs 'maximum HP' numbers.
I'm going to have to get some more raw data from him in the next few days.
Take them with a grain of salt.


Beyond that... I was getting 15 PSI or so max from the turbo. I had plenty of extra fuel, I definitely created a bit of smoke at times. Either way, it needs more air to do any better; the fuel is plenty.

Still, I think this is a pretty good result overall for a bone-stock truck with only a single 'bolt on' mod.

110cc's should be good for about 297 HP using a 2.7whp/CC, so I would imagine a better turbo setup would net you an aditional ~40-50hp. Still, 240whp isn't that bad!

FordGuy100 said:

110cc's should be good for about 297 HP using a 2.7whp/CC, so I would imagine a better turbo setup would net you an aditional ~40-50hp. Still, 240whp isn't that bad!

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Yeah, I'm not looking at it as 'this is the max possible from the pump' but more 'this is what you can make with a stock setup and minimal parts'.

I think the next test will be throwing a Wicked Wheel 2 on it and seeing what it does.
I still have to be careful with boost on this rig as it is /not/ studded, so I'll have to keep the boost under 20 PSI(I think seeing if I can mod the wastegate to limit it to 18 if I can do more than that with the WW2 would be my plan).

Got an ETA on the wicked wheel 2?
Ats is the only factory turbo option correct?
Ive got a ww2 in the glove box, itd be interesting to see performance of a stock pump cranked up vs the 110cc

shawn deere said:

Got an ETA on the wicked wheel 2?

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Probably going to wait for a few weeks, until I have my spare truck back at least. Just as a backup.

shawn deere said:

Ats is the only factory turbo option correct?

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Yeah. Just so you know, I got almost the exact same HP out of a Banks Sidewinder TE06H turbo... but it also felt like it had more backpressure by just a little.

shawn deere said:

Ive got a ww2 in the glove box, itd be interesting to see performance of a stock pump cranked up vs the 110cc

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What are you making? Because I'd like to know that, too - both with what a stock pump cranked with a factory turbo(without WW2) and with WW2 etc.

what was the rating on the 7.3 idi turbo? I remember the N/A was 185hp.

246 sounds pretty impressive.

Factory rated at 190 for turbo engines,

Macrobb said:

What are you making? Because I'd like to know that, too - both with what a stock pump cranked with a factory turbo(without WW2) and with WW2 etc.

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Got a 1990 f350 zf5 PO swapped a factory turbo 7.3 idi
Build so far is going to be

holly red lift pump-currently fuel pressure drops to 0psi when pulling typically at 3.5-4psi idle

Whicked wheel 2

Alreday has straight pipe exhaust

Already ip is cranked

Currently has massive exhaust leak pre-turbo. Most boost ive seen is 7#.

We will have to wait till August for me to get it on a dyno though... looking for 225 rwhp

compressionignitionrules said:

what was the rating on the 7.3 idi turbo? I remember the N/A was 185hp.
246 sounds pretty impressive.

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Dieselcrawler said:

Factory rated at 190 for turbo engines,

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So... Lets have a small lesson on HP numbers.

First off, there are two HP numbers to worry about: Flywheel HP and Rear Wheel HP.
The first is what you get if you hook the engine up to an engine dyno(like they do on Engine Masters).
Because it's just an engine number, it doesn't include losses from accessories(alternator, AC, etc), nor drivetrain losses.

The second is what you get on a chassis dyno. This number represents exactly what you are pulling with when you are driving around. It's a snapshot of the engine/transmission/tires/axle/accessories and everything else, not just the engine.

Unfortunately, this number is also smaller, usually by around 30-35% than the flywheel number.
Manufacturers know this, and they know how much people like 'big numbers', so they always use Flywheel HP when rating(unless otherwise specified).

The IDI was rated in the 170-185 HP range, at the flywheel. Multipledyno tests show that to be around 125 RWHP stock.
BTW, as an anecdotal post, two years ago at Hunting 4 Horsepower dyno event in Coeur d'Alene Idaho(50 miles from me, same 2K elevation), made a whopping 87 HP on the dyno with a stock 88 truck, with the fuel 'turned up'(but it didn't sound great, either).


The IDIT as well is rated at the flywheel(190), and was significantly de-tuned to make that number. I'm pretty sure ford didn't increase fueling over NA, so per the numbers it's
just as bad.

7.3 Powerstroke wise, here are some dyno numbers:
I'm seeing 1999 rigs making 155-170, 2000 @ 167, 2003 @ 190.

So, when you look at the numbers in that light, the picture is a *lot* different.

edit:
I thought This would be a decent comparison as well:

1993 F-250, 7.3 IDI, ZF5spd, 4.10's, ATS wastegated turbo set to 12 psi, 3" down pipe, 4" straight pipe, 5" stacks, IP turned up 3 flats, pressure matched BB injectors, hypermax cowl induction, timing set to 0* with luminosity probe. Peak wheel horsepower was 186hp, torque was 363tq.

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Almost exactly the same truck here, except for more fueling(and my wastegate being disconnected).

Is this dyno with the S366 with the .63 hot side? That's what the specs are right? I forget. Lol

88 Ford said:

Is this dyno with the S366 with the .63 hot side? That's what the specs are right? I forget. Lol

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Nope; a stock Ford/ATS turbo. 2.25" downpipe, 2.25" exhaust(though it *is* straight-piped. Quietest straight piped IDI ever.)

The S360 is, um, waiting for me to rebuild the motor.
That turbo will easily boost 30+ PSI with the same pump, which will clean up nicely, but blow the headgasket on *any* non-studded IDI.
When I rebuild a motor for that one, it's getting a 150CC pump, PS forged rods, headstuds and should make 400+ HP.

Which means the goal of *this* build is to do what I can without having to stud it, keep it a 'mild' build using the 110cc pump.

Make more videos Macrobb I'm gonna start making some videos of my intercooler instal soon I'm using the cx racing cooler and my ats 088 it's a pretty common turbo and I'm sure someone would benefit from the write up on it. hopefully a dyno one day I'd like to see what it's making now

So, um... I may have to re-dyno it before making some mods.
Today, I just took it for a good long run; 300 miles round-trip with a dual-axle flatbed trailer to go pickup a '92 F-250 7.3 IDI with Banks turbo(aka same truck as the 93, but blue/gray instead of gray/pink)*.

Got halfway there, having a lot of fun with the power... Floor it going up a big hill to pass in 5th(at 2400 RPMs or so) and watch the RPMs hit 3K almost instantly.
I thought the tires slipped, considering it was wet.

Later on, gave it a lot of pedal when trying to accelerate up a hill and... RPMs jumped.
The clutch is going, or can't handle the torque. I made it back(another 200 miles after it slipped the first time), and was able to maintain 70 in places, but had to be careful about giving it too much torque.


(*) Bought the new truck for $1650. She looks good, but has a sprung driver's side door. The hydraulic clutch cylinder was empty, which is why it "needed a new clutch", but when I filled it and bled the clutch a bit, I had enough pedal to get it in and out of gear. Had to put my own battery in it too, and a glow plug or two is shot, but... pretty good price for something like my '93 without the rust.

Macrobb said:

Nope; a stock Ford/ATS turbo. 2.25" downpipe, 2.25" exhaust(though it *is* straight-piped. Quietest straight piped IDI ever.)

The S360 is, um, waiting for me to rebuild the motor.
That turbo will easily boost 30+ PSI with the same pump, which will clean up nicely, but blow the headgasket on *any* non-studded IDI.
When I rebuild a motor for that one, it's getting a 150CC pump,??? PS forged rods???, headstuds and should make 400+ HP.

Which means the goal of *this* build is to do what I can without having to stud it, keep it a 'mild' build using the 110cc pump.

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PS forged rods, as in Powerstroke rods? what years? I have a 96 F250 not running I was going to haul in complete for scrap since its up now. maybe I should keep this one? I have a 7.3 idi with a hypermax turbo on it in a 88E350 i was toying with putting in my 86 E150 short van, it needs rebuilding but is still complete. forged rods and balancing with head studs woudl sure make it interesting.

The PS rods need modification; trimming down of the main-bearing area. 6.9/7.3 non-turbo motors also will require the piston side to have a bushing, as the PS pin is larger. 7.3 turbo pistons, however have the same pin diameter as the PS pin.