More 6.9 rebuild updates....Woh is me!

Well, I was going to put the heads on the block this weekend, but I wanted to make sure they were ready 1st. So, I pulled the valves to make sure the machine shop did take the heads down and inspect the valves, seats, and guides like they said they did. THEY DID NOT!!! Looking at the invoice, they didn't charge me for doing the inspection, but they told me on three separate occasions that they had.

So that means the heads need more work. The old guides need to be machined and new guides pressed in. MORE DELAYS!

Anyway, the guides are all worn with about 8-10 thousands of side play with the valves in the guides. That's too much. The intake valves are coaked from oil leaking all over them for who knows how long.

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Coaking in the intake:

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After cleaning:

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Wear on the stems.

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Pitting on the face of some of the exhaust valves:

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More to follow:

Heath

murphy is killin you

So, the heads are going to need more work, so I keep myself busy with other stuff.

Thought I might as well get the front cover on. The timing marks for the crank, cam, and IP timing gears were lined up. "O" to "O" for the crank to cam gear timing. "Y" to "Y" for the cam to IP gear timing. Once the front cover is on, you can't see the marks, so it's gotta be done now.

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The front cover was prepped for installation and a new front main seal was pressed in.

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When your water pump starts puking rusty crap out of the weep hole, it's time for a new one.

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Front cover and new Ford water pump installed with new gaskets:

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The IP gear cover needs to be installed to keep the gear from moving and changing the gear timing.

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There are grooves on the bottom of the IP gear cover that need to be filled with silicone before install. Otherwise, oil will leak front the bottom of the cover. You want to see silicone being pressed out of the groove.

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More to follow:

Heath

The rear cover was next. I installed it first, and put in the new Ford rear main seal with repair sleeve.

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Ford part number and kit. The Ford sleeve comes with an install tool. It was missing one of the four guides. And it didn't do a very good job of driving the seal and sleeve into the rear cover and over the crank.

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Rear main seal and repair sleeve installed

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The head dowels were installed. Got'em from Ford. The Ford part number for a four pack is in the photo below:

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More to follow:

Heath

The head studs were put back in the block after chasing the threads with a bottoming tap and putting antiseize on the threads:

Passenger's side:

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Driver's side:

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All done:

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I put the lower radiator hose manifold on because I had nothing better to do I guess.

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The machine shop pulled all the block plugs and reinstalled after they hot tanked and pressure tested it. Is this plug supposed to be there?

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Thanks,

Heath

On the positive side, I did find a great deal on new Ford lifters. I got a set of 16 for $90.

I also got a new set of Clevite intake valves for $75. Still looking for a good deal on exhaust valves, but that may not happen before the heads go to the machine shop yet again. So, I'll likely have them order the exhaust valves and guides.

Speaking of guides, the machinist was completely against using Manganese Bronze guides. Said he's seen big problems with them. And basically said he'd only put in cast iron guides. Going to try and call Precision Engine Parts about their guides and get some more info before deciding.

Heath

Impressive! A lot of time and effort went in to getting those parts that clean. It really shows up when you paint - no clots of dirt/grease showing up as lumps in the fresh paint. Thanks for doing the research and providing the info on part numbers for the seal kit and installer. That really makes things simpler! I'll be using repair sleeves on both ends of my crank, so the info really helps.

93cc7.3 said:

murphy is killin you

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Dang right he is. Dirty little freak!

Dave Barbieri said:

Impressive! A lot of time and effort went in to getting those parts that clean. It really shows up when you paint - no clots of dirt/grease showing up as lumps in the fresh paint. Thanks for doing the research and providing the info on part numbers for the seal kit and installer. That really makes things simpler! I'll be using repair sleeves on both ends of my crank, so the info really helps.

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Thanks Dave. I'm a little OCD, and I want my stuff to be clean and purdy when I'm done. I take a lot of photos, as I never know if I or some one else will need the info on the pictures down the road.

Heath

hesutton said:

On the positive side, I did find a great deal on new Ford lifters. I got a set of 16 for $90.

I also got a new set of Clevite intake valves for $75. Still looking for a good deal on exhaust valves, but that may not happen before the heads go to the machine shop yet again. So, I'll likely have them order the exhaust valves and guides.

Speaking of guides, the machinist was completely against using Manganese Bronze guides. Said he's seen big problems with them. And basically said he'd only put in cast iron guides. Going to try and call Precision Engine Parts about their guides and get some more info before deciding.

Heath

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Hey Heath, Justin (NMB2), wanted me to pass along to you that he's willing to hook you up with a set of exhaust valves at a small fraction of the cost of inconels which he says are also better than inconels. If interested PM me and I'll put you in contact with him.

Heath... Those are some great pictures. The front plate backside shows those 4 thin spot welded nuts that tend to strip out causing so much trouble these days. Glad you showed that to everyone. The water pump gave you all it had. Good thing you started this project. No telling how much time was left on that. Probably just enough to get cooked up and down the road where you find out the tols are left at home... Lucky find right there. Murphy didn't get you on that one.. The top gear cover joint is important to get rtv in the right places. I cleaned mine for the longest time and when I saw the plate sticking up like it did from the block I thought I assembled it wrong. Nope.. It fits above the block like that to make a good seal. RTV there is your friend. You might look into getting the Comp 910 valve springs. They are a little stiffer and work fine on our engines. Typ4 knows of several springs that wil work for us too. Good deal on the lifters. I was watching those but really don't need a third spare set. But I wanted a third spare set... I'm a hopeless spare parts hoarder..... Those exhaust valves look terrible. Whatever the shop did on those heads sure wasn't much if anything. Chargeing you anything is questionable. If they charged you any money it would have been for rental space in their shop. I don't see any work done to the heads. They need to be completely taken down.... Cleaned... Then magnafluxed for cracks. Then repaired. Then pressure tested or at least vacuum tested. At the very least some diesel poured into the valves and seats. If it leaks thru that seat and valve are not right... With the new shop just make sure they set the valves the proper depth in the heads. I don't have the intake or exhaust valve depth but its very differant from each other.. Keep going.. Your doing a fine job of this and the pics and documantation is priceless.

Diesel JD said:

Hey Heath, Justin (NMB2), wanted me to pass along to you that he's willing to hook you up with a set of exhaust valves at a small fraction of the cost of inconels which he says are also better than inconels. If interested PM me and I'll put you in contact with him.

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I'm interested, but I need them quickly. Taking the heads to Louisville to the Haas Machine on Thurday. Also, need some more info on the valves. I'll send you a PM.

icanfixall said:

Heath...
You might look into getting the Comp 910 valve springs. They are a little stiffer and work fine on our engines. Typ4 knows of several springs that wil work for us too.


Good deal on the lifters. I was watching those but really don't need a third spare set. But I wanted a third spare set... I'm a hopeless spare parts hoarder..... Those exhaust valves look terrible.

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Funny you mention the Comp Cams 910 springs. A set is supposed to be on my doorstep tomorrow.

Thanks for letting those lifters go. I was hoping to get them. Better than taking my chances with unknown aftermarket parts. Plus, Ford wants $43 per lifter! I paid what.......$5.60 per lifter. That was a deal for sure.

Heath

Top-notch work on the rebuild, Heath!

SparkandFire said:

Top-notch work on the rebuild, Heath!

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Thanks Justin. It's been a fight getting the machine work that I need done.

Anywho, I spoke to "RT" at Precision Engine Parts about the valve guides. Here is what he had to say. The Manganese Bronze guides typically have double the life of cast iron guides. But, they are more difficult to install as they need not only to be reemed to fit the valve stem, but the bore needs to be honed as well. They transfer more heat to the valves, and he wasn't sure if that could increase the rate of valve wear/damage. Hardend cast iron guides are a good option as they are better at minimizing heat transfer to the valves, are easier to install as they don't need to be honed after reeming, and are half the cost of the bronze alloy guides. But, they don't last as long, but he said they will last hundreds of thousands of miles.

So, there is the info and I have to see if Haas Machine has the capability and the desire to install PEP's Manganese Bronze guides.

Heath

Well your in a sticky wicked right there Heath... The stock valves will work very well with a turbo. All the big three turbo makers and proven that many times over. the 7.3 turbo head with the factory inconel valves are a terrific valve. Now just how you can find something cheaper than those and be a better valve is really go my interest. I know when I removed my inconel valves from the box and the sealed paper bag that you couldn't see thru I found the elgin 2001 part number on the Cleavite boxed valve. If I had the time I would have tested them for material makeup but didn't have the time. I did talk to a Cleavite engineer about why their part had the Elgin part number on them.... He had no idea. I asked for a material makeup but he told me this... "We don't make them in the US any longer because they are too hazardous to the workers. They are cooled in liquid mercury and thats deadly. So we make them in Brasil..." So I talke with another seller on ebay here in Ca.. He told me the same thing... Most all valves are made offshore now. Some are still made here but thats not the norm. I really can't say how to determine if your getting a true inconel valve either. They are supposed to be heavier and they have a dimple in the bottom of them... Well I have weighed them and not ing is differant. So its kinda a trust thing for me now. I know how hard I drove my stock na 7.3 with the Banks wastegated turbo on it boosting to 13 lbs. No valve issues ever and the pistons all had small stress cracks in the tops. Nothing deep but they were there al the same. BTW the pistons dome is 560 to 580 thousands thick in the thinnest center area. That goes for turbo and non turbo pistons...

Heath.. Befor you install the heads turn the crank till all the pistons are below the deck height. Watch the injection pump gear. I don't feel you will have any isses but you could install a pump just to hold the location. then take it off later when you install the valley pan. Moving all the pistons below the deck top will make sure no valves are driven into a piston when you tighten down the rocker bolts. This is something the factory shop manual tells us to do. It will keep murphy away from your door one more time....