could this be anything but the transfer case??

Black dawg

Registered User
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Posts
3,995
Reaction score
703
Location
sw mt
have you tried pulling the trans into gear without using the clutch? Lots of discs get exploded downshifting.
 

bbjordan

Snow Monkey
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Posts
1,421
Reaction score
393
Location
Ashern Manitoba
Subscribed. I am guessing chain too.

Strokes beard...

Ya, that's why I'd prefer an NP205. Gears. No chain.
 

sjwelds

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Posts
1,391
Reaction score
313
Location
Central KS
have you tried pulling the trans into gear without using the clutch? Lots of discs get exploded downshifting.

no that's one thing I didn't try. I do hear the normal clutch release noises when I let out the clutch though. kinda a grabbing noise if you will.

educate me though. can a dmf fail engaged? as in, if it failed, could I even get it into gear with the engine running?

even with all that said, I'm fairly sure its an SMF setup in there.

thanx for all the thoughts! remember, none of us knows more than all of us!
 

laserjock

Almost there...
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Posts
8,841
Reaction score
3,129
Location
Maryland
I've seen heavily abused ZFs break the output shaft but I would think it would make noise. Maybe not.

Let's think about this. I would think you could tell where the disconnect is by jacking the rear wheels up and trying to turn the drive shaft with the truck in gear clutch out. If it turns then you know it's behind the motor/flywheel. I wonder if you spun the center out of the clutch disk. I've seen that happen with cheap clutches. Same symptoms right? No power to trans.

If the first test shows disconnect from the engine, try pulling the inspection cover off the clutch and do it again to see if the input shaft is turning. That would tell you the problem is the clutch disk right? If the input shaft doesn't turn your problem is behind the bell housing. I'm not sure how to decouple the tcase from the trans without splitting it apart physically. If shifting the tcase from hi to low range makes no difference in the level of effort required to turn the driveshaft, I think at that point you could conclude at a minimum the tcase is blown up.

Anyway, just some rambling on how I would trouble shoot this. Maybe it will help.
 

sjwelds

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Posts
1,391
Reaction score
313
Location
Central KS
it helps a lot. thanks for the help. I'll try some of these things. it'll be tomorrow at the soonest. buncha family out for Thanksgiving day today. its gonna be a lot of stuffing the face.
 

jaluhn83

Full Access Member
Joined
May 19, 2012
Posts
1,597
Reaction score
48
Location
Upper Marlboro, MD
I had a t-case die and cause a complete loss of drive like that, but mine was a bit noisier. Happened on a trip to norcal (from San Diego) running up I-5 on the flat valley section pulling an empty 2H trailer (~3500#). First sign I had was the truck seeming to suddenly be in neutral and rolling while I was pulling out of a parking lot (acted as if I'd pushed the clutch in and was rolling for about 50', then caught again and was fine. Almost thought I'd imagined it as everything else was fine. Then about 50 miles later it suddenly dropped out of gear while cruising on the highway, then was able to jimmy the t-case shifter to get it back into gear, then repeated a few times and finally lost it completely. Thing is though when mine went IIRC there was a grinding noise from the t-case. Turned out that the pump has spun and the final failure was caused by wear on the shift fork allowing the shift collar enough slop to jump out of gear.

The fact that you don't hear any noise concerns me. Most thing I can think of would have caused some sort of noise either coasting or when you tried to move it. Only thing I can think of that almost certainly wouldn't make noise is a sheared trans output shaft aft of the output bearing. Possibly a clutch disk, sheared input shaft or t-case issue, but I'd expect at least some grinding noise from those.

I'd suggest pulling the 6 t-case flange bolts and pulling the case aft enough to see if the trans output shaft is turning. Should be able to do it without disconnecting anything else, just move it aft about 1/2". Might have to support it to keep the case from rotating. Then either jack up the axle and turn a rear wheel, pull the driveline and turn the rear yoke or put it in gear while idling and look at the shaft (easiest but most dangerous - be careful).

That should at least tell you if it's t-case or further forward. T-case is an easy r&r, likely not more than an hour and minimal tools. The case is light enough that a reasonably strong person case pull it without a jack too.

I'm not sure if you can see the trans in put shaft well enough through the inspection port to see anything - worth a look, but I wouldn't mess with it too much. Regardless, if it's not the t-case, the trans has to come out anyway, so not much gained pinning it down to the clutch at that point.
 

sjwelds

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Posts
1,391
Reaction score
313
Location
Central KS
well why would the output shaft snap when not even under a load? I guess why would anything fail when unloaded, for that matter. freak things can happen tho, but I'm still leaning toward tcase at this point...like a previous post in this thread indicated, it seems to have happened before.

Thanx again, and jaluhn, not trying to rag on your ideas. appreciate any input.
 

jaluhn83

Full Access Member
Joined
May 19, 2012
Posts
1,597
Reaction score
48
Location
Upper Marlboro, MD
I agree, makes no real sense, although stranger things have happened. The mechanism I could see is a crack existing that holds on load one way but finally snaps due to the reverse load - even though it's a low low, the shift in direction could cause it to break. Low probability but possible.

T-case is most likely, but again it seems very odd to me that it's not making any noise. Everything I can think of in there that would be broken would likely cause some sort of a grinding or rattle when you had it in gear.

Like I said, pull the t-case back and check. Doubt it would take more than 5 minutes, though maybe more if things are rusty/stuck.
 

sjwelds

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Posts
1,391
Reaction score
313
Location
Central KS
the plot thickens.

so today the mech down the street called and said he had a couple of tcases on hand. so I thought OK great, I'll just tow it over to him and let him mess with it since I don't have time to. so fired it up so I'd have power steering and brakes etc.

so here's where it gets interesting. with the engine running, I can pull it into gear without using the clutch... no grinding at all.

and even more interesting. as we were towing it over there I could pull it into gear as well....now we didn't get going more than 15 mph or so but still...seems like there woulda been some grinding??? even got it into reverse while moving forward (again, slow speeds) but it did grind a little bit then.

not sure yet what the outcome will be!?!
 

cpdenton

Truck needs paint.
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Posts
1,810
Reaction score
75
Location
Conway AR
:popcorn

Tell him to hurry! I gots to know!

Hope it turns out well btw.
 

laserjock

Almost there...
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Posts
8,841
Reaction score
3,129
Location
Maryland
Based on that I don't think it's the tcase. I'm voting it's either the clutch disc or the input shaft. The other remote possibility I can think of is the pressure plate. I really think you spun the center out of the clutch disc though.

X2 on hurry... Is there a prize for the right guess? :D

Seriously, I hope it's something simple. Keep us posted.
 

Clb

Another old truck
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Posts
5,702
Reaction score
2,163
Location
nannyfornia
Based on that I don't think it's the tcase. I'm voting it's either the clutch disc or the input shaft. The other remote possibility I can think of is the pressure plate. I really think you spun the center out of the clutch disc though.

X2 on hurry... Is there a prize for the right guess? :D

Seriously, I hope it's something simple. Keep us posted.
+1 on ^^^^this, I wanna know how it made no noise!!?
 

sjwelds

Full Access Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Posts
1,391
Reaction score
313
Location
Central KS
^^ yeah this is what baffles me the most.... like I said, just got it into 3rd and was letting out the clutch, when just kind of a "click" and the engine returned to idle. No other noises during or since....cookoo cookoo

Hopefully a couple of things didn't happen at once. :sly :confused:
 
Top