Finding more gears

I work as a fleet tech in little rock on busses. I work on 2 5.9l cummins 12v, 7.3 powerstroke, 2 f450 v10, 2 f350 5.4l v8 and also 2 cng 5.9l cummins 12v(it's funny to see the parts guy face when o say " give me spark plugs for a 12v cummins")

In my fleet the 7.3 powerstroke is on a 3900 or 3400 international with an allison behind it.

The bellhouseing pattern doen't look like the BBF it's close to a sae #2 but the adapter plate looks the same.

So an idea come to me if I get that adapter plate and put it behind my idi in my f350. Then maybe I can get the a 9 speed eaton fuller to fit with od. I just can find how big it is from the input shaft.

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2CG0Yx3cmsc it can be done. There is a 10spd that is lighter and works better...I think a Eaton 1066

Yeah one more gear is not going to hurt just have to see what I would have to do to make it fit

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ZF5 and a US Gear/ DNE2 box will give you 9, will work like a 2 speed rear end.

whitehorse said:

There is a 10spd that is lighter and works better...I think a Eaton 1066

Click to expand...

RTO 610, or RTO 6610. Those are the OD models of the small 10-speeds, the 610 is rated at 600lb-ft input torque and the 6610 is the upgraded 660lb-ft version. Need the SAE bell for them tho, which for IDI use can be sourced from 80's S-series International trucks or school buses. Naturally you want a transmission capable of operating a clutch brake (IIRC that meant pull-type clutch setup) cause all that rotational mass inside takes like forever to slow down and trying to hit 1st or reverse from a stand-still is no fun when gears are still turning. Obviously gonna need an air supply for the range box, but since it's a range box and not a splitter like a Super-10 (which is way too huge for a pickup truck anyways) you can easily get away with a reasonable tank and a small compressor. Tho if you gonna have air supply you might as well go all out and drop in an exhaust brake too (air-operated Pacs are cheap on evilbay for the not self-regulating model), and also air horns to get quick attention from all the ignoramuses out there when needed. At which point you'll need a decent compressor, especially with the horns.

There are also Spicer's (I think) EZ-shift transmissions, IIRC they can come with up to 7 gears, and they're all in the single pattern on the stick, no range shifting.

Edit: keep in mind all this is usable for 2wd trucks only. Well unless you get a divorced transfer case to go with the big transmission, then rock on. For easy bolt-on 4x4 capability look into AdvanceAdapters Ranger OD box, it goes in front of a standard 4-speed truck transmission and gives you 8 forward and 2 reverse gears, and you retain full 4x4 capability in any and all gears. Will probably be cheaper to go that route, big stuff ain't cheap unless you luck out big time.

Mines 2wd with 4.56 rear gears I know a few places I can go to pick some up don't know price

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IDI's came in medium duty Internationals with manual transmissions for a number of years. We have one in our service truck. As someone else said just find one of those and pull what you need. Single range transmissions like the 6+ aren't any fun to shift when they get worn out but that may just be me, I prefer 9 or 10 spds
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Sounds like you two know what fits what. I would like to put an IDI or DT460 in my winch truck.
Currently has a 396 tall-deck and a Spicer 5-speed. What bell/adaptor would I need to mate to
the transmission?

This is an sae bellhouseing chart

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fsmyth said:

Sounds like you two know what fits what. I would like to put an IDI or DT460 in my winch truck.
Currently has a 396 tall-deck and a Spicer 5-speed. What bell/adaptor would I need to mate to
the transmission?

Click to expand...

Measure the bell your Spicer has now, refer to the chart posted by RustyGold. Then try locating a bell of that type for your desired engine. Or, if you find a medium-duty donor truck, good chance that will have both the engine and the proper bell for you. Especially if it's got a big 5-speed behind it, which is how most of the older ones came (they often use a 2-speed rear axle to split the widely spaced gears in the 5-speed trans, as opposed to a fixed-gear axle and a transmission with a built-in range and/or splitter like how larger trucks are done).

Already had a SAE chart. Are you saying the International pattern is SAE?
And that mine has an adaptor on it now?
And it does have a 2-speed rear... Just didn't think it was relevant.
My Mack has a #3, I think. Looks very much larger than the Ford.

International pattern is its own thing actually. Just like how Cummins has their own pattern (the 8-bolt tall and narrow trapezoid for the 6B series for example). The 396 you have now is probably its own thing as well. Basically most engines have their own specific bolt patterns, and their manufacturers also produce (or have someone else do so for them) adapter plates/housings to take the oddball engine-specific pattern to a standard SAE pattern (or any other pattern required, as is the case with both the IDI Ford and the Cummins Dodge). And sometimes the same engine has multiple sizes of SAE adapter plates/housings available for it, you puck the one you need based on the trans you have. If the Spicer is bolted to the 396 via circular bell, that's a SAE adapter housing hanging off the back of the 396. The Spice ESO (Easy Shift Overdrive) 66-7B (7-speed) for example appears to only be available for SAE 2 bells, so whatever engine you find one behind will have kinda adapter on the back of its engine.

Depending on what your Mack is, it could very well have a SAE 1 housing.

The reason I mentioned the 2-speed rears is to explain why there are not that many 10-speeds instead in medium-duty applications, aka why finding a small 10-speed (especially an OD unit) may prove to be somewhat difficult depending on location...

X2

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That was a very good explanation
But I already knew all of that....
My question was: does the IDI use an SAE adaptor on the small manual trans. truck?

I just picked up a Detroit 8v92 mounted on a skid, with a 5-speed bolted to it.
Definitely an SAE 2. Used to drive a mud pump.

Oh oh, well you shoulda said it that way! Ok, for use in a pickup truck, yes the IDI uses an adapter plate, but it's not SAE or anything else standard. What happened there is Ford cast their own transmission bellhousings in such a way that 4 of their 6 bolts line up with holes drilled and tapped into the IDI block. Because the remaining (top) two bolt holes in the IDI block fall behind the flywheel Ford could not use them for the bellhousing like with the other 4, so they made the 1" thick plate that is kinda horseshoe shaped and goes all around the flywheel but also sneaks in behind it as well - the plate is bolted to the engine block with those two short bolts that fall behind the flywheel, then the two trans bolts thread into that plate above the flywheel, and the remaining 4 bolts are those that I mentioned first and they go thru the adapter plate and thread into the engine block.

Unfortunately this means the only transmissions that will directly bolt up to an IDI with said adapter plate are several 4-speeds (three T19s, two NP 435s, one T18) and the ZF5 5-speed (comes in two gear ratios). Nothing else will fit without either modding the adapter plate (ZF6) or entirely replacing it in favor of a SAE 2 adapter from a medium duty truck (or bus).