Used ZF-5 speed, Question on checking condition

I picked up a ZF 5-speed from behind a 460 Last weekend. I have a couple questions before I start rounding up parts to put it in. I also got the transfercase behind it so i'll probably be asking about how to check it out also.

1. How do I tell how good of shape it's in? Without running it can I check the bearings or syncronizers? They junked the truck when the clutch died, but up until that point it was driving.

2. I've got a T-19 with a newer 12" LUK clutch setup on it. I know the tranny input is different between the ZF and t-19. What would be the biggest reason for not just getting a ZF clutch disc to fit my pressure plate and a new throwout bearing? That's under $100 vs a new LUK single mass clutch kit is like $350. I know several people have done these swaps just using a new clutch disc and throw out bearing.

3. How do I check out the transfercase? I'm thinking it's a 1356 or so with slip yoke output. Main concern would be chain stretch, pump issue, or bearing issues.

Thanks
Jeremy

Not really any way I know of the check the ZF. I'd pull the back half of the t-case off since it's just a bunch of bolts holding it together and that will let you check the chain and pump.

ZF input shaft length is different so it doesn't engage the pilot bearing correctly which leaves the clutch shaft unsupported. The truck I had they did this and it had horrid noise from the trans. I'd also expect abnormal trans wear.

Pony up the money to do it right - would hate to try to skimp and have to redo all the work/damage things.

^^^^^^ +1; $350 is chicken feed, compared to tearing it apart again.

You realize you'll have to make some modifications to the mounting holes on the tranny case, in order to bolt it up behind a diesel engine, right?

^^^^^^ +1; $350 is chicken feed, compared to tearing it apart again. Plus, if the clutch kit with the T-19 is fairly new, you can probably sell it for more with the complete clutch kit and flywheel.

You realize you'll have to make some modifications to the mounting holes on the tranny case, in order to bolt it up behind a diesel engine, right?

1. How much does the input shaft wiggle when you grab it by the nose by hand? You want as little movement as possible, lots of play suggests mainshaft bearings are wore out. Ironically we bought a recently-remanufactured ZF5 last year, two days later found a factory one in a junkyard truck and grabbed it too cause the price was right, turned out the junkyard unit had practically no play in the mainshaft whereas the reman unit must have been assembled with incorrect shims cause it wiggles more - still not too bad, but enough to make us run the junkyard unit instead, and the reman is getting gutted for a wide-ratio gear swap hopefully this weekend.

2. We looked into the clutch thing, for the same reasons as you did. I'll have to get back to you on the specifics, I can measure the pilot tips to at least check if that's the same or not. We did end up using a whole SMF conversion kit tho, cause we found a screaming deal on one...

3. The transfer case, while it's assembled you can check it for chain stretch by placing it in 4hi and holding the rear output shaft stationary while twisting the front input shaft. Some twist at the front yoke is normal for a chain-drive, a lot suggest a loose chain. Grabbing the output shafts and trying to wiggle them will tell you conditions of the bearings, however the BW1356 has some pretty big bearings and chances are they're just fine in there. Pump situation can only be checked by opening the t-case - 4 bolts for the tail cone, then a snap ring in front of the bearing. If the t-case has VSS then you reach between the plastic gear and the big bearing and pull the spring clip out sideways, then slide the gear in towards the bearing, pull the gear indexing ball from the shaft (don't lose it), then slide the plastic gear out and off the shaft. Then remove the bunch of bolts around the perimeter of the housing and the rear half should lift right off, will probably require some careful prying between the two halves in the areas where the indexing dowels are on each end.

Yeah I'm aware of the modifications to make the tranny bolt to the IDI. I'm going to borrow the mag drill from work to drill the holes. Should go pretty well.

Thanks for the comments guys.

Kind of what I figured on the ZF. My thought was to run it through the gears. See if anything felt super loose as suggested. Pull the PTO covers looking for carnage and if nothing seems hinky just run it.

Regarding the transferase that doesn't sound too bad to checkout. Kind of involved, but I don't really wan to put it in to find it has a bad pump later on.

On the clutch I wasn't trying to be too cheap, but if a simple friction disc and throw out bearing would have sufficed I was content doing that. What I didn't want to do was end up with a grabby clutch or something that would cause harm later on. Or make all sorts of noise. I completely agree that the T-19 with a newish clutch and flywheel still on it would be more marketable than no clutch at all. Hopefully somebody wants it. Otherwise it goes under the bench.

Thanks again that's what I was looking for. Kind of anxious to get the wide ratio in and see how it drives compared to the closed ratio in my other truck.

Thanks
Jeremy

ZF5 case is aluminum.... don't think a mag drill will work too well. Should be fine doing it with a twist drill.

I'd do the t-case pump mod while you're in there to save any issues down the road - simple to do while it's apart.

Oh, but a mag drill will work wonders if one uses a few pieces of angle steel bolted to the bell as a frame for its base

Btw I checked the pilots, both the ZF and the T19 use the same 17mm end for their input shafts. Dunno on the length tho, don't have a 4-speed with a bell bolted on to check the shaft tip's offset from the bell's front surface. Come to think of it, idk where the bell actually is, should be with the transmission but it ain't... Dang, now I gotta go organize stuff!

+1 on the t-case pump mod. To make your life easier and not disturb the front output shaft seal, when you get to the chain drive pop the snap rings off both output shafts and slide the gears with the chain off the shafts. Front shaft will remain in the front case half held there by the yoke on the other side. The rear shaft is much easier to maneuver when it's just the shaft and the pump. It's like a Lego in there, everything is stacked one on top of one another and fits pretty much only one way, and goes back in the exact opposite way of how it came apart. Simple and kinda fun to mess with actually, nothing like the guts of the beast that lives in front of it in the truck

If you want to save some money on your clutch, you could consider a Lucky Mod.

Yah, but more work than it's worth IMHO when a regular twist drill will work fine on the aluminum and the holes are reasonably sized. Would also probably want to check if the mag drill bits were ok for use in aluminum since it cuts differently.

The difference between ZF & T-19 isn't the pilot size, it's the length from the case - T19 is about 3/8" longer IIRC, so the ZF either doesn't reach the pilot bearing or barely reaches it - hence the problem.

Lucky mod wouldn't help if he doesn't already have a DM flywheel for the ZF which I'd guess he doesn't...

Yeah no Lucky mod for me. Last dual mass I had went out at 5 cents a lb in the dumpster. All I have is the 6.9 flywheel with Luk clutch. So truthfully swapping to a full SMF doesn't give me heartburn as it would also put me back in to a 7.3 flywheel. Although I've had no issues with the 6.9 flywheel for years now.

Regarding the mag drill I had planned to put the steel adapter on as my drill guide. Bolt it through the two top holes once opened up to 1/2". Then attach the Mag drill to it. That seemed the easiest way to me to match up and drill all the holes. Worst case I'll use my transfer punches and a normal drill. Just figured the Mag drills like a mini drill press.

I've heard of the t-case pump mod. Sounds like a no-brainer if I'm in there. I'll have to do some reading on that.

Thanks Again!
Jeremy

Ok So I was almost ready to order my clutch and had a question.

Normally I would order the Luk 07-225 clutch kit. It has flywheel, flywheel bolts, clutch disc, pressure plate & bolts, throwout bearing etc. But it's not in stock. So it looks like I can replicate the kit using a luk 07-131 clutch kit with a valeo flywheel kit. The valeo flywheel is listed as an interchange for the LUK flywheel that comes in their big kit. Any concerns with a Valeo flywheel? And the mix & match is slightly cheaper than the full luk kit if it was in stock.

Also do I need the little washer / shim piece under the flywheel bolt heads on a SMF? I'm pretty sure I don't have one with my t-19 flywheel right now. So if I need one does someone have one they want to part with?

Thanks,
Jeremy

Hell looks like it may be back in stock, but my cheapness is getting me.

t-case pump mod?

You can get the Luk flywheel and clutch kit separate from Amazon. 320$

Laser, good eye. does the luk flywheel come with flywheel and pressure plate bolts? Not sure if those are a big deal, but the valeo flywheel does.

FordF250 - yeah I'll be doing the transfer case mod while it's out.

Thanks
Jeremy