Weird issue with timing my bull moose

so as some of you can recall, i installed a Bull Moose and a set of Mister Mark II injectors.
i also swapped the 7.3 injector hard lines with 6.9 lines.

i rented a meter from Gary, and trouble shot this with several of you in PM.

FIRST OFF...this post is in no way an attack on Conestoga diesel.
IN FACT, the truck does run great.

so here is my issue.

after the install, i had alot of issues with timing it.
as to where, if i turned the pump twards the driverside it would advance it.
if i turned the pump twards the passenger side it would retard it
(lets keep my retardedness out of this for a minute)
Hydro-IDI was over a few days prior and we timed his truck without a hitch(almost)

everyone i talked to is stumped.
Mel pointed out that the lack of fuel pressure from my mechanical lift pump was sub par.
and that io would not get a correct reading @ 2 psi.
i installed a facet pump, and the performance skyrocketed.
issue i thought was solved. and the truck ran awesome.
i timed it just once and it was at 7*,
i was tired of messing with it so i left it alone because the truck ran good.


i had thought i had ruined Garys meter, but everything checked out on his end, and the meter was good.

i employed another member to come over today to time my truck and see where i was at, because i thought my rookieness and Garys meter did not collarless.
(i will let him chime in if he wishes)

i did not let him in on the little problem i previously had because i wanted to see his reaction.
initial timing reveiled 6.5*
we moved the pump twards the passenger side to advance it,
fired the truck up, and registered i think was 1.8???
his reaction was the same as mine. ***??!??

so we said ok, advance it the way the meter says....
we "advanced" it via his meter to 9.9/10.1
less smoke, which is good, but shes sluggish now.
EGT's didnt change much from a flat footed run on the freeway, but coolant temp seemed to be cooler via the dummy gauge.

is there anything i could have done wrong???

i did not pull the IP gear or housing when i replaced the IP.

any thoughts???
fuel pressure is at 7-9 psi

Bad injection pump? Got a known good pump you can try on it?

I got nothing but a few questions that may seem silly. First off I'm not questioning your using another meter to verify what you did with my meter. The slight difference you found from meter to meter is acceptable. Now the question that may seem silly. You posting tells us you moved the pump towards the passenger side fender. This means the top of the pump was moved towards the passenger fender. In a simpler way the pump was turned counter clockwise. The timing move will not cause the engine to become doggy either. Best I can come up with is the pressure of fuel reaching the pump. I can't tell you where to check the internal pump delivery pressure either but these pumps do have test ports on them. I understand you have checked the pressure and found it to be 7-9 lbs but where was that taken? Can something be causing a pressure drop like a dirty screen in the inlet of the injection pump? I'm just throwing things at the wall seeing whats going to stick. BTW you did not damage my meter. Its in Florida at the moment and will be heading to another member when its back here.

I'm assuming when you put the 6.9 lines on you left off the 7.3 timing adapter? You must of, or there wouldn't have been any reason to swap lines.

That's an odd one for sure.

7-9 psi is at the gauge, on the outlet of the fuel filter before the feed line to the IP.
i really like the performance at 6.5* but at 9.9* its lost some get up and go.
i really wish i had a drag strip with lights in my back yard lol
i dont want to claim its a bad IP, because it does run good,
huge improvement from my previous IP.
yes the IP was turned counter clockwise as we face the IP gear cover. twards the passenger side fender, which retarded the timing.
i had this problem with the fuel supply hard line from the filter to the IP, ive since changed it to a SS braided flex line with -6 AN fittings.
no change in the supply line swap. and the hard line had no blockage.

i employed said member, because even tho ive done alot of work to this truck, and im grasping the reality of an IDI, i still consider myself a f'n rookie.
i wanted an opinion of someone that has more knowledge than i, not only that, but 2 brains are better than 1.
his meter was matched with another j3300 and a matco ferret, all 3 were within acceptable range
so i feel confident in saying its not the way we timed the truck, its something else.
we also cleaned a different spot on #1 injector line, because he said even tho i hit bright shiny metal (right next to the injector nut) , being that close to a 90* bend in the line can do funky things.

ToughOldFord said:

I'm assuming when you put the 6.9 lines on you left off the 7.3 timing adapter? You must of, or there wouldn't have been any reason to swap lines.

That's an odd one for sure.

Click to expand...

yes i deleted the timing adapter.
the reason i swapped lines, was for aesthetics, i had the 6.9 lines powder coated.

no questions are silly, the only outcome i will shoot down is the bad IP, for now...
i want to make 100% sure it was nothing i did.
if Mel, wants to make that determination, he's the guy that would know lol, not me.

THIS POST IS TO HELP WORK THROUGH AN ISSUE, NOT TO PLACE BLAME.

That's just weird, I cannot fathom how an IP could be clocked backwards....

i will not take any part of this IP apart, its a bran new pump, if anyone is gonna take it apart, it will be the shop.

i do have the old IP, but she leaks like a siv. out of the top bolt hole of the high idle solenoid bracket.
and i would have to rent yet another meter to check it.....

im not having any luck with IP's lol

That makes sense, hopefully Mel will chime in. It'd be enlightening to hear from one who builds the pump.
I just can't picture what would make it work backwards like that, unless you have an odd timing gear set like from a boat engine. Was it ever timed with the old pump?

ToughOldFord said:

That makes sense, hopefully Mel will chime in. It'd be enlightening to hear from one who builds the pump.
I just can't picture what would make it work backwards like that, unless you have an odd timing gear set like from a boat engine. Was it ever timed with the old pump?

Click to expand...

yep, i took it to Towcats shop and he timed it for me without issue.
i did end up having to pull the IP gear cover off to reseal the front cover, but everything went back together just fine. until a month or so later when it started leaking.


humungous headache right now....
hitting the rack.
will be back on later

What cylinder did you use? 1 or 4 and did you try it on the other cylinder? I would say operator error but you had 2 meters/persons so thats unlikely. You used the 3 business cards trick on the mag pickup I assume. Did the mag pickups fit snug, not loose? Did you have the cold advanced unplugged at the ip pump?

I'll toss this out for shear stupidity sake. I in no way think this is the problem but hey, wth. It's not a gm pump is it? The run backwards from the ford ones. I don't even know if it would run. Probably not. Hey. Hairbrained idea over.

ironworker40 said:

What cylinder did you use? 1 or 4 and did you try it on the other cylinder? I would say operator error but you had 2 meters/persons so thats unlikely. You used the 3 business cards trick on the mag pickup I assume. Did the mag pickups fit snug, not loose? Did you have the cold advanced unplugged at the ip pump?

Click to expand...

i did use #4 once when i had gary's meter, i had started with #1, i switched FTFOI, same results.
today we used just #1
same results with the cold idle disconnected cold, and left on when warm.

if it was a GM pump, wouldnt it not pump fuel due to the reverse rotation?
i dont know the difference inbetween the 2

Brian,

Wishing you luck that your problem gets resolved in the near future. At this point, I cannot think of anything other than the possibility of it still being a flow problem or a line clogged somewhere in the system. Like Gary stated, maybe the IP screen is blocked with debris causing a fuel psi fluctuation . Or maybe something is clogged in the fuel filter or filter head. I have no idea. But at 9 degrees btdc, you should definitely be feeling a power increase, not the other way around.
Yeah, I don't think I will ever forget when you and I timed my rig and couldn't figure out why the meter wasn't working correctly. I stood there for about 5 minutes trying to figure it out....then we realized the probe was not clipped onto the injector line . And we were sober. That's the worst part about it haha.