DT360: The beginning

BrandonMag

Dana 50 rebuilder
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Posts
1,185
Reaction score
99
Location
Oregon east
If you have followed Ron's (defecater) thread here: http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?56069-Started-my-DT360-swap-yesterday
you know that he got tired of all the problems he encountered in the process of his DT swap.

Upon reading this, I sent him a PM on January 23rd. Long story short, I just got back this afternoon from a 3600 mile round trip to Osceola, Iowa from Vancouver, WA with this in the bed of my truck:

You must be registered for see images attach


Here's a video of it starting after sitting for ten months (I'm pretty excited):

https://flic.kr/p/rxPPAU

In my signature, you can see I have an '85 F350 CCLB 4X4 dually. I originally intended to swap in a 12-valve. I got the engine, most of the parts (adapter plate, transmission, Brownie, etc.), started to put it together, but then lost interest in it. It's been sitting covered for about three years.

Once I read that Ron had lost interest in this DT, I jumped at the chance to get my hands on the famed DT360. My intention is to turn the F350 into a truck that can (literally) haul/tow WHATEVER I hook to it. I'm shooting for about 500 hp and 1000 lb/ft. :D I don't intend to put this truck together for as cheaply as I can, but I would like to spend my $ as wisely as I can. Hence this thread. I'm looking for some good ideas and constructive criticism.

Turbos: Ron had the Bosch A pump rebuilt. I'm thinking twins are probably what I will go with. Triples seem a bit excessive and I haven't ever put together a compound turbo setup. Also, space is at a premium: I intend to have this ready to haul a trailer 2000 miles if I need to. I don't think there is adequate space to install triples and retain the heater box and all the other stuff that I'll need in the engine compartment. Recommendations?

Transmission: I also got an Eaton 3053 medium-duty tranny behind the engine; I'm not 100% sure if I will use it or not. I may, but Ron told me that running stock size tires (235/85R16) with a 4.10 axle in fifth gear at 60 he was turning about 3K rpm. He said the fifth gear is about a .86 overdrive. That is less than desirable for my application. I do have a Brownie I can use behind it, but I don't know if that would be the best option. Maybe an Allison?

Transfer case: I fully intend to have build this as a functioning 4WD, but don't know what the best option is for a t-case. I know about the Atlas, can't say I'm big on the idea of dropping $4K on a t-case. Can an NP205 or some other, more common t-case be built to handle 1000 lb/ft of torque?

Axles: I have the OEM 4.10 Sterling 10.25 rear axle and 4.10 kingpin Dana 60 front. If I set these up with chromoly axles would they be able to handle the power I'm going to put out? I plan on re-gearing to 3.55 and running ARB lockers front and rear. I read about swamp_ratt's build and he went with an AAM 1150 Dodge rear and Dana Super 60 front. However, he is going to be putting out more power than I plan on, so I don't think I need to go to quite that extreme. Also, I got my hands on a set of custom-made dually wheels to allow me to run 255/85R16 tires. Because of this, I would like to stay with the factory 8 X 6.5 lug pattern rather than going to a 8 X 170 mm.

I'm still in the planning stages at this point. I will need to reinforce the frame to the extreme... I may need to get a spare frame just so I have enough pre-bent steel to weld to. The gussets and mounts I will need to weld to the frame for the engine and tranny need to be STOUT. Just getting the rolling chassis properly reinforced, welded, and fabricated will take months. Then it'll be on to the fuel tanks, all of the wiring, brake lines, etc. etc. etc. Then the cab and bed installed. I may use a flatbed, or maybe not. I may end up using a two-inch body lift for clearance of the down pipe... not sure. Will need to get significantly further along before I cross that bridge.

Obviously, this is a long-term project. One that is going to be measured in months and years, not days or weeks. I have a life outside of this project, so it will take awhile. However, I plan on keeping everyone updated with pictures as progress is made. ;Sweet
 
Last edited:

BrandonMag

Dana 50 rebuilder
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Posts
1,185
Reaction score
99
Location
Oregon east
Sweet. Good luck. I'll be swapping a 360/zf/205 into my F350 this summer.

Thanks, I know it's a rather large undertaking. I have read three or four threads on DT360 installations on various forums.

There is a certain sense of pride from building your own truck. I still get compliments on my F250, even though I have definitely used it. I didn't put nearly as much work into it as I plan the F350, but it's nice when strangers appreciate your hard work.

I basically plan to make this a diesel pickup as powerful and with all the creature comforts of a modern truck, only with no emissions BS and for less $. I went to the Portland International Auto Show last month. I saw the brand new diesel Ford, Dodge and GMCs. They ranged in price from $62-67K. I opened the drivers door on the GMC and the handle was loose. And it was plastic. :rolleyes: I know I can build a better truck for cheaper. ;Sweet

I've followed your DT466 Travelette build, I know you know what you're talking about. What amount of power level are you shooting for? What kind of modifications are you going to make to the ZF and the 205?
 

6.9poweredscout

Bleeds IH red...
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Posts
3,323
Reaction score
14
Location
Northeastern Pa
Yeah, I get tons of compliments on my F350. I love my harvesters way more , but the fords are a close number 2 in my book. Same here, building a more reliable, stronger and MY OWN truck to MY SPECS.

You must be registered for see images


Shooting for the 500 hp 1000 ft lb range. we'll see. Just going to freshen up the ZF and probably run a rear flange yoke and bigger joints to the rear shaft and axle. Will also build a support for the 205 so it's not as much stress on the ZF.
 

BrandonMag

Dana 50 rebuilder
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Posts
1,185
Reaction score
99
Location
Oregon east
Wow. That's a nice crew cab. ;Sweet
I didn't think the ZF and 205 would handle that kind of torque. My original plan was to run a VE-pumped 12 valve with a 2WD ZF and a Brownie. Hadn't figured out what to do for a transfer case. I had thought about a divorced 205 behind the Brownie; but a transmission, auxilliary transmission AND a transfer case seemed like a lot of items to run in series... maybe not? I know there's enough room. I ran out of steam in the Cummins before I figured out that piece of the puzzle.
Ideally, I would like to run the DT, a medium duty tranny, and a transfer case. Seems like the simplest way to go. I wouldn't have to worry about breaking the tranny, and if I went with one with a high enough OD gear, an auxilliary transmission wouldn't be necessary. The disadvantage to this route is that I will have buy a transmission... and I already have the 3053. Would it be a mistake to install the 3053, a Brownie AND a transfer case behind the DT? If properly supported, I think it may work.
 

lotzagoodstuff

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
May 19, 2007
Posts
2,726
Reaction score
668
Location
Carmel, IN
Pretty cool build Brandon ;Sweet

I'm jealous that I'm not close enough anymore to see the progress in person!

Good luck and keep the pics coming ;Sweet
 

BrandonMag

Dana 50 rebuilder
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Posts
1,185
Reaction score
99
Location
Oregon east
Can and will do, RJ! ;Sweet
I'm going to attempt to get it out of the bed of the eff too fiddy tomorrow. That should be interesting.
 

6.9poweredscout

Bleeds IH red...
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Posts
3,323
Reaction score
14
Location
Northeastern Pa
Ohh that power was for the 466..That I have a Spicer 5 speed od transmission and 205. If you have the transmission already I'd just go that route and run an auxiliary and t case.

For the 360 I just plan on twisting up the pump and maybe injectors and a turbo.
 

whitehorse

Full Access Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Posts
1,054
Reaction score
1
Location
Jacksonville Al.
Yeah, I get tons of compliments on my F350. I love my harvesters way more , but the fords are a close number 2 in my book. Same here, building a more reliable, stronger and MY OWN truck to MY SPECS.

You must be registered for see images


Shooting for the 500 hp 1000 ft lb range. we'll see. Just going to freshen up the ZF and probably run a rear flange yoke and bigger joints to the rear shaft and axle. Will also build a support for the 205 so it's not as much stress on the ZF.

Dang what a truck.....that's one sweet bricknose
 

BrandonMag

Dana 50 rebuilder
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Posts
1,185
Reaction score
99
Location
Oregon east
Now that I had the DT home, I had to get it out of the truck and set it down in the garage. For some of you (like Ron with a capable 4X4 forklift) this may not be a big deal, but when you're dealing with a 1400 lb DT360 and a 200 lb Eaton 3053A medium-duty transmission, it can be challenging. All I have is a Harbor Freight two-ton engine hoist, and I wasn't extremely confident in it's picking abilities... turns out, my worries were misplaced. It went pretty smooth.

Here's where I started:

You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


Here's the first step to getting it out of the bed of the F250:

You must be registered for see images attach


And here it is where it will sit for awhile:

You must be registered for see images attach


(I plan on building a rolling dolly for it to permanently rest on, but I have some other stuff I need my truck for at the moment and I needed the DT out of the bed. I will get started on the cradle for it next week.)

I don't if many of you have seen a medium-duty clutch assembly up close. I never had and took a couple of pics. It is WAY beefier than any light-duty clutch assembly! IIRC, Ron said the flywheel is 17"!

You must be registered for see images attach


Here's a closer shot of the fingers the throwout bearing pushes on to disengage the clutch:

You must be registered for see images attach


It may be hard to tell, but there is some slight wear on the contact points. I ran my fingernail over them and I can just barely catch the edge of my nail on them. Not a lot of wear, but there is some. Ron told me that the last time he drove the truck, the clutch slowly started slipping. No noise, no smell, it just gradually stopped grabbing. To the point that once he was a few miles away from home, it wouldn't move at all. Once he got it home, the clutch wouldn't even hold the truck in place when parked in gear. Something happened, and he wasn't sure what it was. I don't have any experience dealing with medium-duty stuff. He told me he had the bellhousing machined down about a 1/2" to get the throwout bearing to engage properly. [Originally the DT had an Allison behind it (the DT came out of a 1990 International school bus, I assume the Allison was the dreaded 545), so some work was needed to get the military surplus Eaton to work correctly.]

This leads to a question: is it possible that taking a 1/2" off the bellhousing was too much? Ron told me he had driven the truck maybe 1500 miles. Could it be that when the clutch was brand new the disc was just b-a-r-e-l-y engaging the flywheel? And once the clutch had a little wear on it it no longer had enough contact with the flywheel to function properly? I'm just trying to figure out why a brand new medium-duty clutch would start slipping and not work at all after only 1500 miles was put on it. :confused:

Ohh that power was for the 466..That I have a Spicer 5 speed od transmission and 205. If you have the transmission already I'd just go that route and run an auxiliary and t case.

For the 360 I just plan on twisting up the pump and maybe injectors and a turbo.

If I understand correctly, you're running a NP205 behind your DT466. Did you do anything to it? Some kind of special heavy-duty parts? Or is it just stock? Also, what did your 205 come out of? They were put in so many different applications, if I go that route, I want to make sure I get the one that's correct.

All I had planned for this DT (since it has a freshly rebuilt Bosch A pump and rebuilt injectors) was a pair of twins and a 6.0 intercooler. If the turbos are sized correctly, I'm assuming this will get me to the power range I want.
 
Last edited:

6.9poweredscout

Bleeds IH red...
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Posts
3,323
Reaction score
14
Location
Northeastern Pa
Thanks whitehorse.

It's a stock 205 from an international pickup I rebuilt, used flanged yokes and made a custom crossmember.
 

BrandonMag

Dana 50 rebuilder
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Posts
1,185
Reaction score
99
Location
Oregon east
Turbo questions

I stopped by Turbocharger Systems yesterday to find out some more information on what would be a good forced induction setup for the DT. Spoke with the owner, Kent, for about an hour. Nice guy and extremely knowledgable. He's located in Scappoose, OR, which is about 40 minutes away. To say he has an awesome shop is an understatement. It's not huge, but he turns out some amazing turbos. http://www.turbochargersystems.com/ If you follow the link to his Facebook page, you can see some of the turbos he's built. :eek:

His recommendation on the specific turbos to run surprised me a little. He said for the power level I'm looking at (roughly 500 HP), with the rebuilt hotter Bosch A injection pump and newer injectors the engine already has, all I needed to do was add an HX50 to feed the factory Garrett.

Combined with the information I got from Kent and looking at a lot of photos of how guys have plumbed their twins, it seems pretty straight forward. Basically, the small turbo would mount on the exhaust manifold in the stock location, I'd need a custom exhaust pipe from the exhaust outlet side of the small turbo to spin the larger turbo, and then the exhaust outlet on the larger turbo would run to the tail pipe.

For the air supply, the intake would be mounted to the inlet of the larger turbo, the pressure outlet from the larger turbo would feed the inlet of the smaller turbo and the pressure outlet of the smaller turbo would then run to the intercooler.

Confusing to read, I know. Here's a crappy sketch to describe what I'm trying to say:

You must be registered for see images attach


Here's a couple of pics of the stocker that came on the DT:

You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


It doesn't look pretty, but it has zero shaft play and seems to be in decent shape. I may have it gone through for peace of mind.

Does adding an HX50 to this turbo to run a compound setup sound like a good plan? Kent had several HX50s that were ready to be rebuilt. They did not have wastegates either. I forgot to ask him if running a non-wastegated HX50 into this Garrett is a good way to go. Opinions?
 
Last edited:

laserjock

Almost there...
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Posts
8,841
Reaction score
3,129
Location
Maryland
My completely un-educated opinion is that compounds would be ****. ;Sweet
 

BrandonMag

Dana 50 rebuilder
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Posts
1,185
Reaction score
99
Location
Oregon east
It's gonna have compounds. I haven't ever done this before, so I ordered Turbo: Real World High-Performance Turbocharger Systems by Jay K. Miller this morning on Amazon. It should be here Saturday. Time to start reading and figuring out volumetric efficiency and such.
 

BrandonMag

Dana 50 rebuilder
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Posts
1,185
Reaction score
99
Location
Oregon east
Searching around on the interwebs, I came across this thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=148730
It's about VW TDIs, but the principles TDIMeister writes about (starting in post # 3) seem to apply to turbos in general.
It's going to take some time and effort, but with a book or two and a copious supply of pencil graphite, I think I can mathematically determine what turbos will be the best fit (efficiency- and cost-wise) for my application.
 
Last edited:

Forum statistics

Threads
91,217
Posts
1,128,519
Members
24,045
Latest member
Ramtough01

Members online

No members online now.
Top