How not to do an engine swap (my 12 valve Cummins into 97 F-350 thread)

TWeatherford

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Posts
1,172
Reaction score
10
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
How not to do an engine swap

I bought a 1997 F-350 a few weeks ago because I got a good deal on it. I’ve been looking into doing an inline six diesel swap into a Ford for a while now, and after budgeting I found several already swapped trucks for less than my entire swap cost, without figuring in the cash back from selling my current truck.

I bought this one because, though a little rough around the edges, it ran great and had no glaring issues that I noticed. It is about everything I want in a truck. Crew cab, 4x4, flatbed, inline 6 diesel, manual transmission (ZF5), solid front axle (Dana 60), don’t really care for the dual rear wheels but it gives more space on the flatbed. Upon disassembly, I’ve found plenty of issues and some really leave me scratching my head – why would anyone think this was a good idea?

As I re-do this truck, I’m going to use this as a build thread and place to showcase some of the insane things done to this truck. I hope some people will have some ideas for me to help me along as well – I have some things that I want to do, but don’t know how feasible it is. And hopefully I’ll show some ways to do things right. I don’t necessarily have to have a factory look, but I want it to look tidy and well thought out, and be reliable and fairly easy to work on.

A few pictures of the truck the night I brought it home

You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach



You must be registered for see images attach


He said it had a vibration from the front passenger side, and he was right. I noticed this was jacked before I bought it, and figured it would get me home since he drove it that way from ND to AZ. Hub centered Dodge wheel, on a Ford hub that doesn’t fit, with conical lugnuts for a lug centered wheel.

You must be registered for see images attach
 

TWeatherford

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Posts
1,172
Reaction score
10
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
So the first thing I wanted to do after getting it home was fix the no start condition that happened literally in his driveway the as soon as the cash and title were transferred. He was sure it was a wire on his POS pushbutton starter switch that he had installed, which seemed plausible.

First, a song describing most of my vehicle buying experiences, and certainly this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjeTq2fShRc

So when I crawled under to look at the starter, it turned out that only two out of the normal three were holding it in, and both were extremely loose. Why only two bolts, well, because the adapter plate doesn’t have holes for three even though an extra ear to provide material to drill and tap one into would have been oh so easy.

When I got the starter off, I took it to the auto parts store to have it tested. They didn’t want to hook it up because of all the oil, and only did so after I promised it was a diesel truck and no gas was on the starter. When the turned the switch on the machine, it tripped the breaker and the radio in the store went off. Upon opening it up, it looks to be beyond rebuilding.

I’ve got a used OEM Denso starter being shipped to me, as this is a 1st gen starter and they don’t make OEM starters anymore, just Chinese junk. I’ll get a LarryB rebuild kit for that one and hopefully not have to jack with it for 100k or so.

So next I wanted to tab the KDP. I asked the PO if it had been taken care of, and he said “everything on this truck is ready to go.” But didn’t appear to know what a KDP is even though he is a diesel expert. This is what I found after chipping off the epoxy

You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


At least I know where one of the major oil leaks is coming from.
 

TWeatherford

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Posts
1,172
Reaction score
10
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
So upon finding that, I decided I’d pull the core support since he had hacked it pretty good. Almost cut through in some of the most crucial spots, why is beyond me. Its not like the radiator had enough clearance anyway.

You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


I pulled a good rust free core support at the parts yard yesterday. I’ll have to cut it for the intercooler, but maybe I can do a better job. Speaking of the intercooler, it appears that it was rubbing against part of the core support. So bad that two tubes are completely worn through. I have no idea how I managed 30 psi of boost all the way up the hill from Phoenix with two holes in the intercooler. It must flow a heck of a lot.

You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


Beautiful wiring. Electrical tape is way overrated.

You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach
 

TWeatherford

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Posts
1,172
Reaction score
10
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
I decided to pull the alternator since there was a hole in the housing and it looked like there was some JB weld on it. After removing the first bolt, it fell off before I got a chance to loosen the other one (there was only one other one, because, as with everything else, the PO only used 2 out of 3 bolts). Turns out the second mounting point had been broken completely off, and somehow the JB weld had worked for a little while (long enough for me to buy it so I guess long enough).

You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


Why, when the housing broke this bad, you wouldn’t just pull a used alternator from the parts yard and run it, or swap the internals on your working one over to the used housing, is beyond me.

Next up I thought I’d see what was hiding under all that oil and grease and see what kind of radiator hose is on there. Certainly a one of a kind custom

You must be registered for see images attach


Straight cuts rob horsepower

You must be registered for see images attach


I think he might have fished this out of his septic tank, why it was necessary I don’t know because it was just connecting two of the same diameter rubber hoses?

You must be registered for see images attach


Sweet welding on the intercooler pipes. This may explain a lot, as it looks to be galvanized, which gives off toxic fumes when welded. Maybe he breathed enough toxic fumes that two seemed like the new three.

You must be registered for see images attach


Threads on the inside of your intercooler pipe give more turbulence, which mixes fuel better for more horsepower, or something like that

You must be registered for see images attach
 

TWeatherford

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Posts
1,172
Reaction score
10
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
So, a couple of questions.

Does anyone know what might have originally bolted to the block here?

You must be registered for see images attach


Anybody recognize this lower water neck? It appears to be an integral part of the alternator mount, but wouldn’t cooperate very well with the factory AC compressor.

You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


If anyone has an idea of how to run the AC compressor on the top driver side of the engine, with one serpentine belt only, I’d love to hear it. I think it would require an extra roller or two, but would give some extra clearance at the radiator Right now there are two 6 rib pulleys behind the fan, the one in front is for AC, moving the compressor back and using one belt would make it easier to tension and also give me an extra inch of clearance.

The intake horn has already been hacked off for AC compressor clearance (at least they cleaned it up a little instead of leaving it a raw cut). I’ll be looking for one off of a 1st gen or a 24 valve, or an aftermarket one that won’t look so bad. If anyone has one or knows where one is please let me know.

You must be registered for see images attach


Note the grid heater wiring has been cut nice and close. The PO claimed that the reason he parked it and bought a new truck was because his wife hated it, because it wouldn’t start when it got to around 12 degrees in North Dakota. IF it did start anywhere near zero, with the cheesy magnetic oil pan heater, one group 27 battery, gasser battery cables, and the starter in the shape it was in I can’t wait to see how it cranks with a rebuilt starter, two group 31 batteries, custom 3/0 battery cables, and the grid heaters wired up.
 

Exekiel69

Registered User
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Posts
5,391
Reaction score
8
Location
Maryland
On the coolant plugs/elbow there is two steel lines that run the coolant to the heater core.
On the AC You could just use a dodge compressor and mate the hoses to the ford system, works great.
 

gonecrazyi

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Posts
3,270
Reaction score
3
Location
florida
I'll try and get some pics of the cummins I got out of an f800. Has all the ford ac compressors pumps and alternator on it.
 

TWeatherford

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Posts
1,172
Reaction score
10
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
I'll try and get some pics of the cummins I got out of an f800. Has all the ford ac compressors pumps and alternator on it.

That would be GREAT. I've done lots of google images searches for F700, F800, schoolbus etc Cummins to see what they look like but haven't come up with anything yet.
 

TWeatherford

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Posts
1,172
Reaction score
10
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
Here is where I stand today

You must be registered for see images attach


A good reason to replace the timing gear case as opposed to jb welding it

You must be registered for see images attach


How to fix a leaking radiator

You must be registered for see images attach


Ugh, cracked exhaust manifold. I am starting to wonder if there is anything that is not broke on this thing

You must be registered for see images attach


Ford didn’t really mean for that bolt to go there

You must be registered for see images attach


Reese provides 6 holes per rail to mount rails for 5th wheel hitch. That’s overkill, though, 2 per rail work fine.

You must be registered for see images attach


Cummins didn’t really mean for that back bolt to hold down the intake plate. On a more serious note, before I go lifting this engine out, is there supposed to be a bolt in the hole on the engine lift loop (circled)? It looks like there are two on it, but I want to make sure.

You must be registered for see images attach


One of four bolts left out on a MOTOR MOUNT! Really?!?! Also, I’m not sure what is up with the bracket that appears broken, and missing bolt attaching it to the power steering pump. Is this a modification to fit the motor mount, or something else?

You must be registered for see images attach


Not enough radiator clearance with a non hacked radiator core support. So I get to move the engine back with new/modified motor mounts, or get rid of that double wide pulley on the fan. The space for the second belt is to run the AC compressor. I’m hoping I can move the AC compressor up (to clear the IP lines) and back to run one belt, and eliminate about an inch of length. I’m also hoping to find a plastic fan, because the metal fans on these trucks have always seemed overkill and dangerous to me. I may have to try to flip the fan backwards, and run the belt around the other side of the fan pulley for the belt route to work out – but then it would be the smooth side of the belt riding on the pulley which may not work when the fan clutch locks. Opinions on that?

You must be registered for see images attach
 

TWeatherford

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Posts
1,172
Reaction score
10
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
Didn’t get much done this weekend. I got the turbo and exhaust manifold off. Does the turbo drain tube normally have a hose clamp on both ends of it, or just the bottom? The hose was really rotted, and just tore off, so it may have been one of the sources of the oil leaks. I think the plate that is bolted to the side of the block that the oil filter housing is attached to needs resealed as well, there is a lot of oil around it.

Didn’t get much done this weekend. I got the turbo and exhaust manifold off. Does the turbo drain tube normally have a hose clamp on both ends of it, or just the bottom? The hose was really rotted, and just tore off, so it may have been one of the sources of the oil leaks. I think the plate that is bolted to the side of the block that the oil filter housing is attached to needs resealed as well, there is a lot of oil around it.

You must be registered for see images attach


The exhaust manifold was a pain. I don’t know if socket head cap screws are normally used on these, but I hate them. Its hard to tell if you’ve got the tool all the way in, and they are easy to strip. Four gave me a real challenge, lots of Aero-Kroil was used, and they all came out. I think I found one of the missing starter bolts, and another random hex head bolt as well.



You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


The exhaust manifold is not just cracked a little bit, its cracked a lot. Anyone know what might caused this other than a poor quality manifold? Like maybe if the exhaust was hanging on it and putting too much stress on it (it seemed to be to me)?

You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


Turns out it is a correct 12 valve manifold, with rectangular holes to match the head. And what might appear to be oil leaking out of the manifold, is just all of the penetrating lubricant I used.

Didn’t get much done this weekend. I got the turbo and exhaust manifold off. Does the turbo drain tube normally have a hose clamp on both ends of it, or just the bottom? The hose was really rotted, and just tore off, so it may have been one of the sources of the oil leaks. I think the plate that is bolted to the side of the block that the oil filter housing is attached to needs resealed as well, there is a lot of oil around it.

You must be registered for see images attach


The exhaust manifold was a pain. I don’t know if socket head cap screws are normally used on these, but I hate them. Its hard to tell if you’ve got the tool all the way in, and they are easy to strip. Four gave me a real challenge, lots of Aero-Kroil was used, and they all came out. I think I found one of the missing starter bolts, and another random hex head bolt as well.

I'm doing my homework and getting ready to buy a lot of parts. I want to do what I can now, but can't afford to build it the way I would if money was not an object, because it is. For example, I'd love to swap on a 12 cm^2 turbine housing, but it builds plenty of boost for my needs as is. I think, for now, I'll just try to make it as reliable as possible, and cleanly and well built, and enjoy it before any major upgrades.

As I've been looking at the fan, I think I'll be able to make it work as is with about 3/4" clearance if I do a 2" body lift. I may shim the fan back a little, maybe go with a different plastic fan and have a custom adapter cut to facilitate that. Then the fan will be centered on the radiator, the back valve cover will be removable, and I'd like it to be a little taller anyway.
 

Silentnoise

Registered User
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Posts
15
Reaction score
0
Location
Hamilton/ohio
Wow seems like when I always build a hot rod, every corner you turn to take care of one thing five more problems pop up! The good thing is when its all said and done at least you know everything will be done the way its supposed to be...
 

TWeatherford

Full Access Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Posts
1,172
Reaction score
10
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
I think I know why the exhaust manifold cracked. The exhaust is completely unsupported between the turbo and about two feet in front of the rear axle. That’s a lot of weight when most of it is 4.”

When your battery cable rubs through on the frame, and melts down, its nothing 8 miles of electrical tape won’t fix. And since electrical tape is so tough, you can let the fixed cable rest on the frame still!

You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


I’m not sure why the spacer thing has been welded to the axle. It doesn’t appear to be welded on either of the other two Fords with sterling rear axles that I have. On a positive note, it is a limited slip axle.

You must be registered for see images attach


On a positive note it turns out the turbo is a Holset HX35, with a 12 cm^2 exhaust housing. It feels tight, with no slop at all. However, it appears to be running off center in its housing. It may look like its just the angle that the picture was taken from, but the blades are almost touching one side of the housing and maybe 1/16” away on the opposite side. Is this a problem?

You must be registered for see images attach
 

Forum statistics

Threads
91,217
Posts
1,128,478
Members
24,044
Latest member
Mnlx
Top