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Thread: Tow Truck PTOs (hydraulic over electric?)

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    Default Tow Truck PTOs (hydraulic over electric?)


    I got a tow truck project, perhaps the correct term would be basket case really. It is a 1986 F350 with an 18ft Chevron Aluminum Bed. I bought the truck off of eBAY last summer with a cracked frame, up by the power steering pump. The dude sold it a few times on the site and every time before, somebody would drive/bus/train/plane up and expect to drive it back. It wasn't roadworthy without the frame being fixed, so he refunded the money and sold it again. I was the closest person being within 75 miles that bought it, people came before from New Orleans and further out to get it.

    So the dude that I bought it from, took some type of saw and cut the cab 6 inches above the bottom of the windshield and the rest of the cab off, so no one would attempt to drive it back. So Yes, it has no roof, back of cab, doors, etc... The front fenders are gone and all I have is the hood over the 6.9L IDI. The truck is a 4 speed manual still and since so much is missing, my friend who towed it home said, why not make it 4WD. So a project began....

    I have spare motors for it (just in case), I have a transfer case, Front axle off of a 91F250, and the rear too. I also have a bunch of E4ODs for it. I have a few spare cabs as well in the 92-97 style too!

    My question is if the original bed ran off the 4 speed with the PTO and I make it automatic, do I need a special E4OD case or is there something after market like an electric over hydraulic set up that people mention yet I can never find?

    I was planning on going through the axle, transfer case, and tranny anyway before putting it together. So do I need an electric over hydraulic set up, or some special PTO case, or what for it?

    Yes the bed controls worked fine before the massacre by the previous owner.

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    hmmm? towcat's Avatar
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    welcome to the site
    If you're going to auto, I'd suggest googling up "deweeze mfg." they make a belt driven PTO pump kit. even for our antique motors. min spec for the pump should be 11gpm or you will have a very slow system. as far as the butchered valve assy, post a pic of what's left and I can tell you if yours is repairable or time for a new assy.
    1992 F350 4x2 CC 7.3 ZF5 4.10LS DRW ATS(series 093) Intercooled & Hydrostop'd......the CSS "Nostromo"
    1988 F350 4x4 SC 7.3 ZF5, GV 4.10LS DRW D60/10.25...the T-ARS "Sulaco"
    1988 F250 4x4 SC 7.3 ZF5, 3.55LS SRW 10.25/D50.....the T-ARS "Brentwood"
    1986 F350 4x4 RC 7.3 C6 4.10LS DRW D60/10.25Vulcan 876 Super Cradle
    1986 F350 4X4 RC 7.3 T-19 4.10 DRW D60/10.25 Vulcan 862 Wheel lift ARS "O'neil Forebay"
    1989 F450 4x2 RC 7.3 ZF5 5.13 D80 Century 17ft alu carrier
    1990 F450 4x2 RC 7.3 E4DOA 5.13 D80 Century 441xl wheel lift
    1985 GMC K2500 4x4 Suburban 6.5 turbo thm700 "Burb-O-matic"

    There are 3 kinds of people in this world.
    The wise, learn from the mistakes of others.
    The smart, learn from their own mistakes.
    The others, well......they just never learn.

    according to Jason Thompson, I must be one of the 15. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-F250-Pr...-/171293233755
    If you are one of the 15 people left on the planet who love IDI's or just want a piece of diesel history this is the truck for you.
    For those who are interested in the impending changes for diesel trucks(with a GVWR of 14,001/lbs and above) owned and operated in Kalifornia Jan 1, 2015, please click on this link.. http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onrdiesel/onrdiesel.htm (updated 9/14)

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    Senior Member 94f450sd's Avatar
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    leave it standard with tranny driven pto!those belt drive things are garbage!!i run a belt drive on my carrier and it sucks.i can pee faster than my bed moves at 2800 rpm.im getting ready to swap mine to the tranny driven setup so my whole bracket setup may be for sale with pump and all.
    Rich

    Pictures:
    http://s1285.photobucket.com/albums/a590/f450sprdty

    : Only after the last tree has been cut down, Only after the last river has been poisoned, Only after the last fish has been caught, Only then, will you find money can't be eaten.
    95 F350 XLT,CC,DRW.gone but not forgotten


    1982 pontiac grand prix LJ.pontiac V8 transplant in the future.

    Goin back to my roots.gas motors and pontiacs!

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    Papabear Papabear's Avatar
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    If you convert it to 4WD with an E4OD there is a transfer cas available that also has a provision for a PTO if you want to go this route let me know and i will dig up the info
    This is my dream truck except using a '79 crew cab it will be a baby bed truck WIFE HAS ALREADY APPROVED THE PROJECT

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    I was going convert it to E40D. I have a few spares lying around. I was going to have it rebuild by a local tranny repairer. Basically the labor is $400 to $500 bucks plus all the parts & kits I supply. Doesn't the tranny case have a PTO outlet on some? Do I need a new case and throw all the gutty works from the normal e40d in it?

    The truck is an original four speed. It seems nobody cares for the four speeds anyhow.

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    Buzzard Pilot PackRat's Avatar
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    Trust me, a 12 volt pump will not support enough volume to run the winch. I've got that very pump on my '49, and The Crossbreed. It would probably be very slow, on the slide cylinder. Both of mine were from the old Type 2, or 'top mount' DewEze units.
    There is nothing wrong with a belt drive pump. as long as you have one of the correct volume(flow rate). The upside is being able to 'hot shift' the pump, from anywhere you decide to install the clutch switch. The down side is running 2 sizable hydraulic lines up around the engine, exhaust, etc.
    A PTO pump on the t-case is a PITA, as you have to put the t-case in neutral, and tranny in gear. The problem results, when you put the tranny in neutral, and attempt to grind the t-case back in to gear. Also, you cannot move the truck, without re-engaging the t-case.
    IMHO, every 6.9 I've every been around, with a slushbox, is a gutless wonder.(Stay with me, I'm really not trying to pick a fight, here.) A manual tranny has a lot less parasitic load.

    The way I figure it, the best case scenerio, is a belt drive pump, with a 5, or 6, speed manual. 2nd would be a manual, with a pto. Last place, would be a dead heat, between a slushbox, with a t-case pto pump, or a 12 volt pump.
    Being a nice guy has gotten me far in life.....

    Far in debt, and far from sanity.

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    Senior Member 94f450sd's Avatar
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    trust me you do not want a belt driven pump!ive hated mine since the day i bought the truck 6 years ago.cant wait till the pto and pump are on the tranny so i can junk that mess thats hangin off the front of my motor.
    Rich

    Pictures:
    http://s1285.photobucket.com/albums/a590/f450sprdty

    : Only after the last tree has been cut down, Only after the last river has been poisoned, Only after the last fish has been caught, Only then, will you find money can't be eaten.
    95 F350 XLT,CC,DRW.gone but not forgotten


    1982 pontiac grand prix LJ.pontiac V8 transplant in the future.

    Goin back to my roots.gas motors and pontiacs!

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    hmmm? towcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 94f450sd View Post
    trust me you do not want a belt driven pump!ive hated mine since the day i bought the truck 6 years ago.cant wait till the pto and pump are on the tranny so i can junk that mess thats hangin off the front of my motor.
    rich-
    your pump GPM is not high enough. you need a bigger pump.
    1992 F350 4x2 CC 7.3 ZF5 4.10LS DRW ATS(series 093) Intercooled & Hydrostop'd......the CSS "Nostromo"
    1988 F350 4x4 SC 7.3 ZF5, GV 4.10LS DRW D60/10.25...the T-ARS "Sulaco"
    1988 F250 4x4 SC 7.3 ZF5, 3.55LS SRW 10.25/D50.....the T-ARS "Brentwood"
    1986 F350 4x4 RC 7.3 C6 4.10LS DRW D60/10.25Vulcan 876 Super Cradle
    1986 F350 4X4 RC 7.3 T-19 4.10 DRW D60/10.25 Vulcan 862 Wheel lift ARS "O'neil Forebay"
    1989 F450 4x2 RC 7.3 ZF5 5.13 D80 Century 17ft alu carrier
    1990 F450 4x2 RC 7.3 E4DOA 5.13 D80 Century 441xl wheel lift
    1985 GMC K2500 4x4 Suburban 6.5 turbo thm700 "Burb-O-matic"

    There are 3 kinds of people in this world.
    The wise, learn from the mistakes of others.
    The smart, learn from their own mistakes.
    The others, well......they just never learn.

    according to Jason Thompson, I must be one of the 15. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-F250-Pr...-/171293233755
    If you are one of the 15 people left on the planet who love IDI's or just want a piece of diesel history this is the truck for you.
    For those who are interested in the impending changes for diesel trucks(with a GVWR of 14,001/lbs and above) owned and operated in Kalifornia Jan 1, 2015, please click on this link.. http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onrdiesel/onrdiesel.htm (updated 9/14)

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    What prices do they start at for the good size?

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    Senior Member 94f450sd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by towcat View Post
    rich-
    your pump GPM is not high enough. you need a bigger pump.
    im running a the biggest pump that will fit in it.if i go any bigger im gonna have to remove my passengers battery and the heater/ac box.but that problem will be solved,ive got a nasty setup going on the tranny
    Rich

    Pictures:
    http://s1285.photobucket.com/albums/a590/f450sprdty

    : Only after the last tree has been cut down, Only after the last river has been poisoned, Only after the last fish has been caught, Only then, will you find money can't be eaten.
    95 F350 XLT,CC,DRW.gone but not forgotten


    1982 pontiac grand prix LJ.pontiac V8 transplant in the future.

    Goin back to my roots.gas motors and pontiacs!

  11. #11
    hmmm? towcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyTrucks! View Post
    What prices do they start at for the good size?
    here's the kit you're looking for.
    http://www.deweze.com/deweze/OEM/Kit...gs/700035D.pdf
    check out the charts for the pump GPM
    http://www.deweze.com/deweze/OEM/OEM.html
    the pump GPMs are the same as if you are using a trans mounted PTO.
    my installs use the hoses as little as possible on the feed side. from the service body to the front. I pipe as much as I can and use hyd hose for the last three feet or so. the pressure line. is all rubber though....well, whatever that synthetic rubber hyd hose is.
    1992 F350 4x2 CC 7.3 ZF5 4.10LS DRW ATS(series 093) Intercooled & Hydrostop'd......the CSS "Nostromo"
    1988 F350 4x4 SC 7.3 ZF5, GV 4.10LS DRW D60/10.25...the T-ARS "Sulaco"
    1988 F250 4x4 SC 7.3 ZF5, 3.55LS SRW 10.25/D50.....the T-ARS "Brentwood"
    1986 F350 4x4 RC 7.3 C6 4.10LS DRW D60/10.25Vulcan 876 Super Cradle
    1986 F350 4X4 RC 7.3 T-19 4.10 DRW D60/10.25 Vulcan 862 Wheel lift ARS "O'neil Forebay"
    1989 F450 4x2 RC 7.3 ZF5 5.13 D80 Century 17ft alu carrier
    1990 F450 4x2 RC 7.3 E4DOA 5.13 D80 Century 441xl wheel lift
    1985 GMC K2500 4x4 Suburban 6.5 turbo thm700 "Burb-O-matic"

    There are 3 kinds of people in this world.
    The wise, learn from the mistakes of others.
    The smart, learn from their own mistakes.
    The others, well......they just never learn.

    according to Jason Thompson, I must be one of the 15. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-F250-Pr...-/171293233755
    If you are one of the 15 people left on the planet who love IDI's or just want a piece of diesel history this is the truck for you.
    For those who are interested in the impending changes for diesel trucks(with a GVWR of 14,001/lbs and above) owned and operated in Kalifornia Jan 1, 2015, please click on this link.. http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onrdiesel/onrdiesel.htm (updated 9/14)

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    Buzzard Pilot PackRat's Avatar
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    Our 96 F350 twin-line has a belt drive pump. The original pump worked great. The 'direct replacement' is less gpm. The hydraulics work fine, albeit a little slow. The winches are slow, unless you spool it up, then you have to be careful, or it will overheat the oil. I like to set up for proper operation at 1000-1250 engine RPM.

    The whole key to making any system work correctly is matching pump with the system pressure/flow requirements.

    DewEze is definitely a good place to start. They have setups for almost everything. Don't plan on stealing it, though.
    Being a nice guy has gotten me far in life.....

    Far in debt, and far from sanity.

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    Papabear Papabear's Avatar
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    you could always try to find a dropbox and than run the hydraulic pump directly off the driveline but if you decided to do that i would use a manual transmission and regardless of your setup i would add a oil cooler on the reurn side of your circuit to keep hydraulic temps optimal
    This is my dream truck except using a '79 crew cab it will be a baby bed truck WIFE HAS ALREADY APPROVED THE PROJECT

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