IH Bell Housing Configuration Questions

Question 1:
Are there two different configurations for the 6.9/7.3 bell housing. Does the truck version of the 6.9 have a different engine-transmission bolt pattern than our Ford pickup engine-transmission bolt pattern? I know the pickup has the adapter plate. I'm just wondering if the "truck version" of the engine is the same engine as a "pickup engine" but bolts up to the transmission without an adapter.

Question 2:
IH built the 152, 196, 266, 304, 345, 392 all with the same bell housing. They were used in trucks, pickups, and agricultural equipment from the 60's to the 80's. I've seen other threads where people ask if the 6.9/7.3 has the same bolt pattern as the old 345 line of engines, but no one has a definitive answer. Can anyone answer this question with a positive yes or no?

Thanks much in advance! I've got a neat truck with a 345 in that I'd like to convert to a 6.9.

Paul

Wish I could answer that, but I don't have the IH background needed. You might call Hypermax. If you can get it touch with the right person, you might be in luck. Hypermax was formed by a few ex-International folks.

I believe that the primary purpose of the adaptor is to give a strong enough mount for the starter. It isn't truly an "adaptor" since Ford transmissions for diesels use a unique bellhousing bolt pattern.

If your International truck has a standard 4 speed, you can use a Ford bellhousing and adaptor to install a 6.9 / 7.3 engine.

Mel,

If I can't find an answer here, I'll try hypermax. Thanks. Either way I'll post my results. It seems like every once in a while someone will ask, but they never reply stating whether they are the same or not.

Mr. Roboto,

If it were an IH pickup with the T-18 or T-19 It would be cut and dry. This is an IH Truck with either the T35 or T36 Five speed. I've got a 392 handy, but no 6.9/7.3 to verify bolt patterns. Thanks.

Paul

Yes, the trans presents a problem....

The adaptors are called "SAE adaptors" are they are numbered for different standard patterns... If you do some research on that you may get closer to your answer.

This may be helpful http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t18_t19.htm

try http://redpowermagazine.com/forums/index.php They are stricly into IH stuff.

Diesel Fly,

I looked things over on your sight, but could quite seem to find what I was looking for. Neat sight though. Thanks

DieselDummy,

Thanks. Interesting sight...now in my favorites.

Mel,

Emailed tech support @ hypermax. Here's what I asked:

I have been told that a few "old school" International Harvester Company employees reside with Hypermax. I am hoping that somehow this message finds its way to them. I have a question that no one seems to be able to answer. I am contemplating a conversion on a model 1800 IH truck. Currently the truck has a 345 IH gas engine. I would like to install a 6.9 IH diesel engine.

I am wondering if the 6.9 diesel and 345 gas engines share the same bolt pattern? This question has been asked time and again in several different forumns, but no body has provided an answer. I would sure appreciate any help your organization can provide. Thank you

Here's what I got back:

Hypermax Engineering, Inc.
255 East Route 72
Gilberts, IL 60136
Voice 847-428-5655
Fax 847-428-5682
www.gohypermax.com

They are all different, you might get a sae truck flywheel housing to make it all bolt up. It is a basically a adapter to go from the engine pattern to a sae type trans flange

Thanks for your suggestion Mel. It seems that we have a definative answer. If I find otherwise I will reply on this post.

Paul

Interesting. I'm glad they responded with a decent answer.

I am an 'IHC guy'. I currently own and drive three of them, and have various IHC engines and transmissions sitting around as well, and a newly acquired '85 F250 6.9/T19.

Short answers:
1 - blocks are the same, the 'adapter' is what is different. The adapters can be swapped.

2 - No, definitely no.

The SV(152,196,266,304,345,392) bellhousing pattern is different from the MV pattern which is what the IDIs are based on. There are MV bellhousings with the IH spec Warner 4-speed pattern on them(more to come on that), and the IH T34/5/6 pattern. So, yes, an IHC transmission can be bolted behind a 6.9/7.3 using IHC factory parts.

If one has an IHC T18/19/98, it will not bolt where a Ford T18/19 was. The cases for the two are different. The IHC setup uses studs in the case of the trans, which then gets washers and nuts on the inside of the bellhousing. Whereas the Ford case does the opposite. Also, the IHC input shafts are longer. I'm not sure about the indexing hole size.

If one were to source an SAE flywheel housing for the 6.9/7.3(likely a #3, possibly a #2), one'd be looking at non-IHC transmissions like the Spicer 3053A, or the Allison AT540, etc. There are plenty of SAE clutch covers/trans adapters out there for many different transmissions. The above mentioned Spicer would be an OD 5 speed and SAE#3 cover found in surplussed 2.5 ton 6x6. I have an NP patterned SAE #4 clutch cover but I'm not likely to find an SAE #4 flywheel housing for the 6.9.

If one wants to put an IHC T3x, T49x behind the 6.9(like I'd like to do), one has one non-DIY choice. That is find an IHC MV bellhousing with the T3x pattern on it. I have another reason for wanting the MV bell vs SAE housing. They are out there though the SV bells for the 5 speeds are much easier to find(I have 3 and will gladly trade for an MV one!). Otherwise, it's make an adapter time, which is a completely viable option due to the aforementioned long input shafts of the IHC spec transmissions.

Hope this helps.

Ken

That's good info Ken.

Why not just throw a ZF-5 behind it?

Camarogenius said:

Why not just throw a ZF-5 behind it?

Click to expand...

That's an option. But when I have multiple heavy-duty, rebuilt, 5-speed transmissions sitting around in the garage, I tend to try to find ways to use them. Then couple that with the fact that if I use an MV bellhousing to mate one of these transmissions to the 6.9, I get to keep the stock clutch release mechanism which happens to be a very robust one and makes the engine swap that much cleaner.

The IHC T35, my personal favorite of the three T3x 5-speeds, has the gear ratios such that 2-5(synchronized) are just like 1-4 of the close ratio T19, and 1st is a 7.17:1 low gear. I prefer to gear the rear for a DD trans vs an OD one. That way, top gear is straight through, thus no load on a countershaft(nor sideload on the mainshaft) while cruising. Yes, it loads the driveshaft and u-joints more(and the transfer case if 4x4) but every design choice involves compromise.

And finally, we IH nuts can be a bit 'off'...haha.

Ken

IHWillys,

Thank you very much! That's exactly the information I was looking for. What are the best options for finding a MV bellhousing with a T3x bolt pattern? Do the IHC 404 or 549 have the MV bellhousing?

Thanks again and welcome to the sight.

Paul